EX R.A.F fast jet Navigators
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It would be a more exciting career than my dull city job (which is the reason I applied), but I have only been offered a SSC, it is a career with a limited shelf life and I would be a second class citizen (if that) compared to the 'two-winged master race', which would be difficult to swallow.
Go for it, it's a great opportunity & a SSC is they way to go IMHO as it offers you the chance to find out whether or not the RAF is the life for you.
Last edited by Tombstone; 23rd Dec 2006 at 18:15. Reason: In order to add an apology just incase Korova is indeed female!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
There must be an anagram for Weapon Systems Officer which is at least as amusing as that for Navigator - Vagina rot 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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It would be a more exciting career than my dull city job (which is the reason I applied), but I have only been offered a SSC, it is a career with a limited shelf life and I would be a second class citizen (if that) compared to the 'two-winged master race', which would be difficult to swallow.
and loved every minute of it. Anyone can do the 'monkey see monkey do' pilotty bits but it takes brains to ................................ bu99er, forgot, I joined as a pilot and got chopped abut a year in. More seriously, it's not so much what you do but how you do it, it's an enjoyable job and, as with everything, if you are good then you have the respect of your peers of all branches.
With a bit of experience and airmanship you should find it easy to cross over if you do decide to take their offer however, think first. We are short of WSO(Nav) and pilots but, whereas it's (correct use of apostrophe!!) easy to attract pilots into the RAF it's no so easy to recruit Navs. Coupled with the fact that the chop rate from pilot, and re-role to Nav, is a lot lower than it used to be means a shortfall on Nav recruitment. They may just be dangling the Nav option in front of you so hold out for Pilot if that's what you want.
Good Luck!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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For those people who sign up now as a wso, how easy/likely would it be to retrain and rerole, as come 2015 i guess the need for navs will be significantly reduced, seeing as the eurofighter is a damn single seater
A 6 year career doesnt really appeal. As I cant join till i finish my degree. Plus it would be completely soul destroying to do that for 6 years, then be forced behind a desk on civi street, its a depressing enough prospect in the first place.
A 6 year career doesnt really appeal. As I cant join till i finish my degree. Plus it would be completely soul destroying to do that for 6 years, then be forced behind a desk on civi street, its a depressing enough prospect in the first place.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I suspect that the GR4 will be in service sometime after 2015. The following website suggests 2025: http://www.aviationweek.com/avnow/ne...aw071706p2.xml
The following website mentions the JCA: http://navy-matters.beedall.com/jca1-1.htm otherwise known on pprune as Dave. As we have yet to order the aircraft one might suspect that 2012/2014 is optimistic. Either way 2025 for the GR4 looks not unreasonable.
The United Kingdom is expected to buy up to 138 of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II at a cost of about ₤8 billion to meet its Joint Combat Aircraft requirement for a replacement for the Harrier and the already out of service Sea Harrier FA.2 in RAF and RN service. The F-35B STOVL variant was officially selected for JCA in September 2002, but this is being reconsidered and the F-25C CV variant remains a serious option and a final decision is awaited. Regardless of variant, the first two aircraft are expected to be delivered in 2012, and a limited initial operational capability to be achieved by the end of 2014.
The following website mentions the JCA: http://navy-matters.beedall.com/jca1-1.htm otherwise known on pprune as Dave. As we have yet to order the aircraft one might suspect that 2012/2014 is optimistic. Either way 2025 for the GR4 looks not unreasonable.
The United Kingdom is expected to buy up to 138 of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II at a cost of about ₤8 billion to meet its Joint Combat Aircraft requirement for a replacement for the Harrier and the already out of service Sea Harrier FA.2 in RAF and RN service. The F-35B STOVL variant was officially selected for JCA in September 2002, but this is being reconsidered and the F-25C CV variant remains a serious option and a final decision is awaited. Regardless of variant, the first two aircraft are expected to be delivered in 2012, and a limited initial operational capability to be achieved by the end of 2014.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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First - threepointonefour is one of the few people here talking any sense and any would-be WSO/nav should heed his wise words. I am an ex-Tornado GR 1/1A/4 nav who is now a Training Captain flying Airbuses for a UK airline. The transition has been long and hard and it is only now that I have 'caught up' with the 2-winged master race. Incidentally, before anyone accuses me of having a chip on my shoulder, I was a nav from the beginning and never went through pilot training.
When I joined the RAF, navs could see a future to 55. Anyone joining the RAF as a WSO now would, in my opinion, be making a serious error of judgement as there is no future for them. The older you get the less your options are and you will find yourself at your 16/38 option being kicked out with no useful skills and starting again. Like it or not, it is a pilot's world in the RAF and I never spotted it. I had some great years with some great people but I woke up, smelt the coffee and left. It was by far and away the best decision I have ever made and I have never looked back. My best advice is that if you cannot get in as a pilot, do not consider for a moment the option of being a nav/WSO - it is the wrong move and will have lifelong repercussions.
When I joined the RAF, navs could see a future to 55. Anyone joining the RAF as a WSO now would, in my opinion, be making a serious error of judgement as there is no future for them. The older you get the less your options are and you will find yourself at your 16/38 option being kicked out with no useful skills and starting again. Like it or not, it is a pilot's world in the RAF and I never spotted it. I had some great years with some great people but I woke up, smelt the coffee and left. It was by far and away the best decision I have ever made and I have never looked back. My best advice is that if you cannot get in as a pilot, do not consider for a moment the option of being a nav/WSO - it is the wrong move and will have lifelong repercussions.
Some years ago the RAF published in open literature it's intention to move towards a '....pilot centric airforce...', or words to that effect (no change there I can hear some people say). This included moves to make the SH force all twin pilot as opposed to pilot/nav, etc.
The artcile said that by 2015/2020 (not sure which, article is probably in the loft - but I won't be going there again until it's time to put the Xmas decorations away!) the RAF would need approximately 100 Navs/WSOs! It also went on to say that there were currently over 1,000 in service (can't remember if it was 1,200 or more like 1,500). So you work it out - that is why WSOs are currently only being offered SSCs!
By 2020 the only aircraft needing WSOs will be GR4 (and maybe not for long), MRA4, E-3D front end (if they haven't redone the flight deck as a mid life update!). F3, C-130K, VC-10, MR2 etc will all be gone - and what will have happened to their WSOs? The 100 figure quoted above also assumed 21 MRA4s and 3 Sqns, as opposed to 12 and 2. So 80 is likely to be a more accurate figure. Some of those 80 are already serving today! Yes, there are other 'console operators' jobs that WSOs do, E-3D back end, ASTOR, etc, but other trades will be there doing the same job - they are not WSO specific roles.
It is against this background that you are considering a potential career as a Nav/WSO. You will be swimming against the tide! By all means find a rewarding and exciting career - but there are other alternatives, and if you still elect to go WSO, do so with your eyes open, and don't believe all the glossy PR.
AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS YOUR CHOICE!
The artcile said that by 2015/2020 (not sure which, article is probably in the loft - but I won't be going there again until it's time to put the Xmas decorations away!) the RAF would need approximately 100 Navs/WSOs! It also went on to say that there were currently over 1,000 in service (can't remember if it was 1,200 or more like 1,500). So you work it out - that is why WSOs are currently only being offered SSCs!
By 2020 the only aircraft needing WSOs will be GR4 (and maybe not for long), MRA4, E-3D front end (if they haven't redone the flight deck as a mid life update!). F3, C-130K, VC-10, MR2 etc will all be gone - and what will have happened to their WSOs? The 100 figure quoted above also assumed 21 MRA4s and 3 Sqns, as opposed to 12 and 2. So 80 is likely to be a more accurate figure. Some of those 80 are already serving today! Yes, there are other 'console operators' jobs that WSOs do, E-3D back end, ASTOR, etc, but other trades will be there doing the same job - they are not WSO specific roles.
It is against this background that you are considering a potential career as a Nav/WSO. You will be swimming against the tide! By all means find a rewarding and exciting career - but there are other alternatives, and if you still elect to go WSO, do so with your eyes open, and don't believe all the glossy PR.
AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS YOUR CHOICE!
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Having flown front and backseat (instructor), trained a lot of WSO´s, I believe, if a man is thinking of becoming a NAVIGATOR and not immediately has the instinct to choose a pilot carreer, he probably is not quite the "pilot type".
Met no student pilot, who considered from the beginning to fly as a navigator!
And I had alot of student pilots.
Maybe there is a difference GAF to RAF? Don´t think so.
But obviously this question was adressed to EX Naviagtors! I do appologize jumped on this thread!
Standing to my opinion by experience!
Met no student pilot, who considered from the beginning to fly as a navigator!
And I had alot of student pilots.
Maybe there is a difference GAF to RAF? Don´t think so.
But obviously this question was adressed to EX Naviagtors! I do appologize jumped on this thread!
Standing to my opinion by experience!
