Why Daddy, why?
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Why Daddy, why?
Why are aircraft carrier islands always to starboard?
My toddler son asked me, I haven't a clue, and now it's bugging the hell out of me.
Some obvious technical reason? Obscure dark blue tradition? Don't tell me it's 'cos British pilots fly on the left, as it's the same the world over.
Help!
My toddler son asked me, I haven't a clue, and now it's bugging the hell out of me.
Some obvious technical reason? Obscure dark blue tradition? Don't tell me it's 'cos British pilots fly on the left, as it's the same the world over.
Help!
The original reason was that the propeller-driven aircraft prevalent when carriers were being developed tended to pull to port (through torque effect). Sticking the island to starboard prevented the buffer having to spend time scraping wafus off the house-side and reducing the ship husbandry (painting) burden. The island is to one side as it allows better use of the flightdeck and hangar areas.
Over time, it became a convention (much like driving on the right in uncivilised countries) and so interlinked with landing patterns that to change it would have caused more grief than it was worth. The japanese did build two with a port side island, but I believe they experienced one or two difficulties.
Over time, it became a convention (much like driving on the right in uncivilised countries) and so interlinked with landing patterns that to change it would have caused more grief than it was worth. The japanese did build two with a port side island, but I believe they experienced one or two difficulties.
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Fixed-Wing pilots/captains traditionally sit in the left hand seat and therefore the left hand circuit is the norm as it gives the pilot a better view of the runway. My guess is (and it is a guess) that by having the island of a carrier on the starboard side then the pilot will get a better view of the deck on a left hand circuit. While most carrier aircraft are single/tandem seat, and therefore it doesn't matter, the pilots will have been trained in the tradition of left hand circuits.
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Sigh.
I spoke too soon. Not so simple after all.
I can get away with dazzling the three-year-old with the engine torque theory, but I fear this is still going to bug me, thanks to Wiley and Speedpig
(thanks all the same).
Anyone written a definitive work on early carrier design?
If so you probably need to get out more, but I'd love to hear from you if can answer this.
I spoke too soon. Not so simple after all.
I can get away with dazzling the three-year-old with the engine torque theory, but I fear this is still going to bug me, thanks to Wiley and Speedpig
(thanks all the same).
Anyone written a definitive work on early carrier design?
If so you probably need to get out more, but I'd love to hear from you if can answer this.
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The reason for having the island on the left is obvious.
Us Brits developed carrier operations. Everyone else copied. We drive on the correct side of the road (left) so it was natural to put the obstruction on the right. Steam catapults, angled decks, mirror landing sights - we led everyone followed - even the French!
Then in true British tradition we let successive labour governments fritter it all away
Us Brits developed carrier operations. Everyone else copied. We drive on the correct side of the road (left) so it was natural to put the obstruction on the right. Steam catapults, angled decks, mirror landing sights - we led everyone followed - even the French!
Then in true British tradition we let successive labour governments fritter it all away
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Name one pre-war aircraft capable of a carrier landing that had side-by side seating.
Even post-war, the Sea Vixen 2 would be the nearest with an offset canopy. USN of course has several.
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Left hand circuits seem to have been standard from very early in aviation. Wasn't it something to do with us right handed drivers finding left turns the most natural?
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And there is where you contradict yourself Pontious old chap.
The left handed circuit has been around since flying began. It's the old standard, from way back when we were flying the likes of the Vickers Vimy. I'm still not sure why, but it has been suggested to me that as most pilots are right handed, it seemed natural in the early days of aviation to fly left handed circuits. It's how the brain prefers it apparently, with all that cross-lobe activity. A doctor can explain it better I'm sure!
As for side by side cockpit arrangements, you're right that pre-war there was nothing doing in that department. However there has been many an aircraft since. And not just in the USN.
I would suggest that seeing as the vast majority of carriers throughout history have been built since WW2 the original comment by wensleydale was not such a silly one after all.
The left handed circuit has been around since flying began. It's the old standard, from way back when we were flying the likes of the Vickers Vimy. I'm still not sure why, but it has been suggested to me that as most pilots are right handed, it seemed natural in the early days of aviation to fly left handed circuits. It's how the brain prefers it apparently, with all that cross-lobe activity. A doctor can explain it better I'm sure!
As for side by side cockpit arrangements, you're right that pre-war there was nothing doing in that department. However there has been many an aircraft since. And not just in the USN.
I would suggest that seeing as the vast majority of carriers throughout history have been built since WW2 the original comment by wensleydale was not such a silly one after all.
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PN,
Had you read my post carefully.... I did say that aircraft were single seat/tandem (space on carrier). I also said that the pilots would have trained on land using left hand circuits because other side by siders set the tone. Once used to left hand circuits then the trend was set.
(Yes, I bit).
Had you read my post carefully.... I did say that aircraft were single seat/tandem (space on carrier). I also said that the pilots would have trained on land using left hand circuits because other side by siders set the tone. Once used to left hand circuits then the trend was set.
(Yes, I bit).
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Not at all. That the USN operates side by side seating NOW is an irrelevance. We got there first and put the island on the right. I agree the land left hand theory is better.
Cheese, OK, I missed part of your post but again name a pre-war side by side trainer.
504K, Moth etc all tandem.
Cheese, OK, I missed part of your post but again name a pre-war side by side trainer.
504K, Moth etc all tandem.
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I asked this question many, many, years ago of an old FAA chap.
He told me that he had also asked this of his instructor when he was u/t.
The reply from the equally ancient instructor was that, because a/c are designed for right hand flying, the natural instinct when things go tits-up is for the right hand to go across the body towards the left. It is far easier and quicker to go left than right. Try it for yourselves (put your stick in your hand...ooo err misses), and see which way is better/quicker.
For me though it would be a real bummer, as I'm sinister...good job I was not on flat tops!
He told me that he had also asked this of his instructor when he was u/t.
The reply from the equally ancient instructor was that, because a/c are designed for right hand flying, the natural instinct when things go tits-up is for the right hand to go across the body towards the left. It is far easier and quicker to go left than right. Try it for yourselves (put your stick in your hand...ooo err misses), and see which way is better/quicker.
For me though it would be a real bummer, as I'm sinister...good job I was not on flat tops!
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Not A Boffin was close, but 228 OCU has hit the nail on the head.
Flat Top superstructure is built on the right to assist a dead pilot in not hitting said structure. When the proverbial hits the fan, it is not only easier, but in physiological terms automatic to clench into a foetal position rather than open up and accept what's coming. This may sound rather callous, but when flying an aircraft to a carrier (with the vast majority of aircraft being flown with ones right hand on the stick), it is rather preferential to have nothing between the crash and the ogsplosh if things go wrong. The Admiral would probably agree.
As an aside, it was quickly learnt in WW1 (and re-learnt in WW2, Korea, Vietnam etc...) that the majority of pilots would break left when bounced. This knowledge was used to great effect by Adolf Galland for one. Personally, I have tried to teach myself to break right if this ever happenned to me. Never had the opportunity, though, as any bandit always seems to appear in front of me, rather than behind. Still, if the opportunity arises, I know which way I'm going
!
Flat Top superstructure is built on the right to assist a dead pilot in not hitting said structure. When the proverbial hits the fan, it is not only easier, but in physiological terms automatic to clench into a foetal position rather than open up and accept what's coming. This may sound rather callous, but when flying an aircraft to a carrier (with the vast majority of aircraft being flown with ones right hand on the stick), it is rather preferential to have nothing between the crash and the ogsplosh if things go wrong. The Admiral would probably agree.
As an aside, it was quickly learnt in WW1 (and re-learnt in WW2, Korea, Vietnam etc...) that the majority of pilots would break left when bounced. This knowledge was used to great effect by Adolf Galland for one. Personally, I have tried to teach myself to break right if this ever happenned to me. Never had the opportunity, though, as any bandit always seems to appear in front of me, rather than behind. Still, if the opportunity arises, I know which way I'm going
!
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I 'm sure I read somewhere that the reason the Japanese built some carriers with islands on the port side was so that they could operate in a close-sailing pair with a 'conventional' starboard island carrier. Sailing with the islands 'back-to-back', as it were, one carrier could fly a left-hand pattern and the other a right-hand pattern simultaneously.
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A production run of 42 Blackburn B2s in 5 years of production suggests it probably didn't have a great deal of influence, especially as they were non military (although Blackburn provided them to RAFVR for flying training at Brough), let alone naval aircraft.
Last edited by Kitbag; 30th Nov 2006 at 07:55.
I got the torque story from a paper given by the FAA Museum curator in 1997, which says :
"Because the rotary engine fitted to early shipborne a/c such as the Sopwith Pup & 1 1/2 strutter produced a gyroscopic effect when the a/c turned pilots would overshoot to the left, going with the gyroscopic precession rather than against it".
However, the l/h landing pattern for right handers does seem to have been part of it as well.
All as covered in Orac link above....
"Because the rotary engine fitted to early shipborne a/c such as the Sopwith Pup & 1 1/2 strutter produced a gyroscopic effect when the a/c turned pilots would overshoot to the left, going with the gyroscopic precession rather than against it".
However, the l/h landing pattern for right handers does seem to have been part of it as well.
All as covered in Orac link above....