Different rules for AT and FJ aircrew
Join Date: Nov 2006
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WhatevvaaH
The fact of the matter is the logistics at AKT for an all rank crew-ERGO an AT/AAR tanker crew/Nimrod etc.. with a crew of 10-17(dependant on role etc) need to be accomodated at the same place if at all poss. AKT is the prime eg with the block 100 series.An officers transit block-yet used by all on an AT crew-NCA
and heaven forbid JRs!!
Not a one upmanship thing going on here between FJ & AT, just the rules as dictated by 2 Gp. A fast jet 2 person crew is a lot easier to accom than the trials and tribs of a single unit crew of say 14 of ranks from Gp Capt to SAC. If AKT cant provide quiet,single/whereposs,air con'd accom for ALL CREW(pilots to Air Stewards/SVCs) at a base then accom must be found elsewhere.END OF STORY! The Capt also has a duty of care for all of his crew if its multi rank/multi gender.Next time you fly in ask AKT ops why the form 95 has been signed for a crew of multi ranks yet the Rx'r on a trail will both be in the mess(or four of/six etc.) .The answer will be to do with GASOs. The days of the AT fleet swanning about regularly in hotels, and on a different rate to everyone else is long gone.
Hawk chap its nowt to do with being "caught out" as you so put it.In this day and age, if the A**e is kicked out of it then it wont be long til that Capt is caught out.
and heaven forbid JRs!! Not a one upmanship thing going on here between FJ & AT, just the rules as dictated by 2 Gp. A fast jet 2 person crew is a lot easier to accom than the trials and tribs of a single unit crew of say 14 of ranks from Gp Capt to SAC. If AKT cant provide quiet,single/whereposs,air con'd accom for ALL CREW(pilots to Air Stewards/SVCs) at a base then accom must be found elsewhere.END OF STORY! The Capt also has a duty of care for all of his crew if its multi rank/multi gender.Next time you fly in ask AKT ops why the form 95 has been signed for a crew of multi ranks yet the Rx'r on a trail will both be in the mess(or four of/six etc.) .The answer will be to do with GASOs. The days of the AT fleet swanning about regularly in hotels, and on a different rate to everyone else is long gone. Hawk chap its nowt to do with being "caught out" as you so put it.In this day and age, if the A**e is kicked out of it then it wont be long til that Capt is caught out.
They've never been able to supply a suitable service for transit crews. It's been an important transit base for over 40 years and it's always been cr@p. With the hassle of a long multi sector AT or tanking route, then to have to spend three hours of your valueable rest sorting out niff naff and admin which should have been done before you arrive by people who can't be bothered because working spoils their three year long holiday in the sun - then the easy solution seem the best.
Once ended up at Akro on an unsheduled stop - therefore no towel. The OM couldn't provide one. Next morning, while waiting for the mess clerk to arrive so that we could pay our 14 pence mess bills (don't try leaving without paying!) for which we delayed the departure for one hour, I saw the mess suggestions book. So I wrote 'Please provoide towels for transiting aircrew. If not, please can you make the curtains more absorbant?' Earned me an interview back home!
I now work for a decent employer. Don't have these problems anymore.
p.s. Akro brandy sours are a well known flight safety hazard.
It is not up to the crew to decide their accommodation requirements - AKR Ops have always known the rules and have, to my mind, always applied them reasonably well.
Sometimes, for a quickie night stop, it was far more convenient to stya on base and do the kebab thing in the evening. Whilst at other times, for example trying to sleep before a night departure to land in some desert $hithole in the dark, it was much better to stay in a quiet hotel than have to tolerate 9 little red Hawks making pretty patterns with coloured smoke waking you up every few minutes.....
A 1Gp whingeogram came around the AT fleet in 2002 - it seemed that some AT ar$e from a base not in Oxfordshire had been leaning on AKR Ops demanding that his crew were all co-located off-base 'for operational reasons'. Which was bolleaux. Just let the AKR Ops guys get on with their jobs and accept what you're given.
Incidentally, at Lajes, 10% Carlos always tried to give the receiver crews the best hotel. Who got the worst? Well, after their teenage wireless operators tried to thieve something from the hotel they'd been booked into, a certain fleet rarely found itself staying in the better hotels......
Dan - the bedspreads were better than the curtains if the OM couldn't find any towels. You never knew who had been wiping what on the curtains before....
Sometimes, for a quickie night stop, it was far more convenient to stya on base and do the kebab thing in the evening. Whilst at other times, for example trying to sleep before a night departure to land in some desert $hithole in the dark, it was much better to stay in a quiet hotel than have to tolerate 9 little red Hawks making pretty patterns with coloured smoke waking you up every few minutes.....
A 1Gp whingeogram came around the AT fleet in 2002 - it seemed that some AT ar$e from a base not in Oxfordshire had been leaning on AKR Ops demanding that his crew were all co-located off-base 'for operational reasons'. Which was bolleaux. Just let the AKR Ops guys get on with their jobs and accept what you're given.
Incidentally, at Lajes, 10% Carlos always tried to give the receiver crews the best hotel. Who got the worst? Well, after their teenage wireless operators tried to thieve something from the hotel they'd been booked into, a certain fleet rarely found itself staying in the better hotels......
Dan - the bedspreads were better than the curtains if the OM couldn't find any towels. You never knew who had been wiping what on the curtains before....
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Why co-locate?
Surely there is no need to be accomodated in the same place. By that arguement there should only be an all ranks mess at your base of operations whether home or abroad.
There may be an arguement that timings of flights may change but mobile phones are a wonderful thing and with all personnel on the station then messages can easily be passed.
I think you are using the system to your advantage (I would to) but why not admit the truth and say you are in hotels cause you can get away with it and not crew duty horlicks.
There may be an arguement that timings of flights may change but mobile phones are a wonderful thing and with all personnel on the station then messages can easily be passed.
I think you are using the system to your advantage (I would to) but why not admit the truth and say you are in hotels cause you can get away with it and not crew duty horlicks.
Join Date: May 2000
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Shhhh!
Chaps, not that cleaver posting all your perks on here. Mr Lean, the NAO and the rest of the hard stretched forces will read this and realise that this a real perk and will have it off you. They can't even get guns!!!! You want to keep all the cake - don't tell anyone you have it? (I flew with Tonka's mates and we passed AKT to stop in Crete for the night and yes AKT was open! Stone throwing and all that.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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AT crews are almost always co-located, for obvious reasons.
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Or are you suggesting that we use our own phones?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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If we could, we'd go down the Episkopiana everytime and take you with us, whilst treating you to a meal at the Village Inn whilst showing you how to fill out that form the J Eng O gave you.
It's not our call ! We pitch up at AKT and Ops will have decided where you are staying dependant on the accom plot. Simple as that.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Not really a good idea to air dirty washing in public, Eh, chaps?
For example: Hotels? Why aren't you living in 7 x 9s, or co-located on adjacent camp beds in a farmer's barn, like in my day? Hurumph.
P.S. The reason for the grass growing greener is often due to the greater amount of bull$#1t on the other side of the fence.
For example: Hotels? Why aren't you living in 7 x 9s, or co-located on adjacent camp beds in a farmer's barn, like in my day? Hurumph.
P.S. The reason for the grass growing greener is often due to the greater amount of bull$#1t on the other side of the fence.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Gents why are we shooting at each other again?
We are not the enemy.
We all play our part in this, despite the hindrance from above. Some work longer, some are braver, some endure boredom for hours on end, some endure incredible pressure on a daily basis. But we all do our little bit to try and keep this machine rolling, as that is our job. We don't choose our posting, or daily workload, and sniping that someone has it better than you is simply pointless.
Perhaps we'd be better trying to raise the accomodation levels for all, rather than bringing down the standard to rock bottom so we're all equal?
We are not the enemy.
We all play our part in this, despite the hindrance from above. Some work longer, some are braver, some endure boredom for hours on end, some endure incredible pressure on a daily basis. But we all do our little bit to try and keep this machine rolling, as that is our job. We don't choose our posting, or daily workload, and sniping that someone has it better than you is simply pointless.
Perhaps we'd be better trying to raise the accomodation levels for all, rather than bringing down the standard to rock bottom so we're all equal?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Unbelievable. Aircrew arguing in public about who gets the best Hotel and who is the 'hardest'.
Is it any bloody wonder your groundcrews are voting with their feet and that elements of the general public and Parliament think you (we) are a bunch of overpaid, whingeing, pompous show ponies.
Grow up. Ther's a war (or two) on.
Oh well, back to my tent.....again.
Merry Christmas.
Is it any bloody wonder your groundcrews are voting with their feet and that elements of the general public and Parliament think you (we) are a bunch of overpaid, whingeing, pompous show ponies.
Grow up. Ther's a war (or two) on.
Oh well, back to my tent.....again.
Merry Christmas.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Thats the funniest thing I have ever read!!
"We need to co-located in air conditioned rooms for crew rest blah blah blah"
Can`t you arrange a wheels plot in the 5-6 hour transit that will pick you all up outside the relevant accomodation at AKR.
Just having come back through AKR, its not that bloody hot there just now, harldy a crying need for air con!!
But I suppose the stewards do need a good nights sleep to shout "JUICE!!!" at me when I ride onboard.
It seems to me the FJ boys just get on with it in crap accom, maybe we should all push the GASOs rules on crew rest harder , or maybe truckies could just MAN UP!!
Its like a spilt air force sometimes.
"We need to co-located in air conditioned rooms for crew rest blah blah blah"
Can`t you arrange a wheels plot in the 5-6 hour transit that will pick you all up outside the relevant accomodation at AKR.
Just having come back through AKR, its not that bloody hot there just now, harldy a crying need for air con!!
But I suppose the stewards do need a good nights sleep to shout "JUICE!!!" at me when I ride onboard.
It seems to me the FJ boys just get on with it in crap accom, maybe we should all push the GASOs rules on crew rest harder , or maybe truckies could just MAN UP!!
Its like a spilt air force sometimes.
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Fox 4
Can`t you arrange a wheels plot in the 5-6 hour transit that will pick you all up outside the relevant accomodation at AKR ?
No. You don't find out where you are staying till you get into OPS. They could do it on the crew bus though once they've found out (which they quite often do)
Anyway, when you go further east than AKT on Ops Fox 4, then you can have a say
Can`t you arrange a wheels plot in the 5-6 hour transit that will pick you all up outside the relevant accomodation at AKR ?
No. You don't find out where you are staying till you get into OPS. They could do it on the crew bus though once they've found out (which they quite often do)
Anyway, when you go further east than AKT on Ops Fox 4, then you can have a say
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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I'd love a hotel room!!
FJ/RW ppruners:-
Not all AT crews are hotel-habiting, shiny aircraft flying, rule spouting, wannabe airline crews.
I for one have spent the last 5 years on enduring ops in various theatres and can count the nights in a hotel room on one hand (and this has been when my customers have tasked me somewhere nice!!)
AKT is well known for accm faffs and AT crews pulling the 'GASO' line.
There is more than enough on-base accm including a nice block behind the Officers' Mess paid for by 2Gp for transit crews.
Please don't tar all AT crews with the same brush.
Shiny fleet - man up and dry your eyes. There are boys and girls on ops who have more to worry about than if the brandy sour is chilled!!
Not all AT crews are hotel-habiting, shiny aircraft flying, rule spouting, wannabe airline crews.
I for one have spent the last 5 years on enduring ops in various theatres and can count the nights in a hotel room on one hand (and this has been when my customers have tasked me somewhere nice!!)
AKT is well known for accm faffs and AT crews pulling the 'GASO' line.
There is more than enough on-base accm including a nice block behind the Officers' Mess paid for by 2Gp for transit crews.
Please don't tar all AT crews with the same brush.
Shiny fleet - man up and dry your eyes. There are boys and girls on ops who have more to worry about than if the brandy sour is chilled!!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Oh Dear,
What became of "Horses, Men, Officers" as our priority in looking after those whom the Monarch had trusted us to "keep in good order and discipline."
What became of "Horses, Men, Officers" as our priority in looking after those whom the Monarch had trusted us to "keep in good order and discipline."