1ACC / RAF Kirton in Lindsey / RAF Scampton future
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Full statement text from Hansard
Air Surveillance and Control System Basing Study
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I am taking this opportunity to provide the House with interim details of the Air Surveillance and Control System (ASACS) Basing Study that commenced in September 2006.
As a result of the Air Combat Service Support Units (ACSSU) and Minor Unit Basing Study, the decision was made to draw down RAF Boulmer by 2012 and relocate some of the ASACS units to RAF Scampton. Following the Communication Hub relocation in 2006 to RAF Leeming instead of RAF Scampton the decision regarding the future basing of ASACS units needed to be reconsidered. This included the proposed future location of all ASACS elements currently based at RAF Boulmer, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Scampton.
During the course of the ASACS Basing Study it became clear that the retention of RAF Boulmer as a core site for the ASACS Hub was the best option in financial and operational terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, RAF Boulmer should not draw down in 2012 and should instead remain the ASACS Hub. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Boulmer will be briefed on the progress of the study.
This decision only refers to RAF Boulmer’s future within the ASACS Basing Study. The final outcome of the study, which will include the basing of the remaining ASACS satellite units at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey, is expected shortly.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I am taking this opportunity to provide the House with interim details of the Air Surveillance and Control System (ASACS) Basing Study that commenced in September 2006.
As a result of the Air Combat Service Support Units (ACSSU) and Minor Unit Basing Study, the decision was made to draw down RAF Boulmer by 2012 and relocate some of the ASACS units to RAF Scampton. Following the Communication Hub relocation in 2006 to RAF Leeming instead of RAF Scampton the decision regarding the future basing of ASACS units needed to be reconsidered. This included the proposed future location of all ASACS elements currently based at RAF Boulmer, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Scampton.
During the course of the ASACS Basing Study it became clear that the retention of RAF Boulmer as a core site for the ASACS Hub was the best option in financial and operational terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, RAF Boulmer should not draw down in 2012 and should instead remain the ASACS Hub. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Boulmer will be briefed on the progress of the study.
This decision only refers to RAF Boulmer’s future within the ASACS Basing Study. The final outcome of the study, which will include the basing of the remaining ASACS satellite units at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey, is expected shortly.
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So Boulmer is safe? When I left in 2004 I understood it to be drawing down in 2012, a ridiculous and shortsighted decision to say the least! It sticks firmly in my mind along with the mental picture of the then-Staish being winched away from the domestic site by yellow taxi! I later heard the decision had been reversed.
Surely ASACS and ATC can't merge as they do different jobs with different kit...does civil radar still do SSR only and no primary radar, as it did when I left?
SFC should go under PTC....wherever that goes! Wasn't PTC due to relocate to High Wycombe?
I am sure that integrated air defence will creep back up the military agenda once the obsession with out of area ops ends (after the money runs out, or when Dubya retires, whichever is sooner). Russians are getting a bit more active, still the threat of a 9/11 etc.
Surely ASACS and ATC can't merge as they do different jobs with different kit...does civil radar still do SSR only and no primary radar, as it did when I left?
SFC should go under PTC....wherever that goes! Wasn't PTC due to relocate to High Wycombe?
I am sure that integrated air defence will creep back up the military agenda once the obsession with out of area ops ends (after the money runs out, or when Dubya retires, whichever is sooner). Russians are getting a bit more active, still the threat of a 9/11 etc.
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Result
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I am able to inform the House today of the outcome of the Royal Air Force study that has been undertaken to consider the future basing requirements of the Air Surveillance and Control System—ASACS—units.
On 10 January 2008, I announced that RAF Boulmer would be retained as the core site for the ASACS Hub but that we needed to do more analysis to determine the optimum basing solution for the remaining ASACS satellite units.
This work has now concluded, and has confirmed that the relocation of the ASACS satellite units to RAF Coningsby is the best option in operational and financial terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, the control and reporting centre—CRC—at RAF Scampton and No.1 air control centre—No.1 ACC—at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will collocate at RAF Coningsby. The relocation is due to complete by the end of 2014.
Following the relocation, it is our intention to draw down RAF Scampton to only those facilities deemed necessary to support the RAF Aerobatic Team’s activities within the reserved airspace above the airfield. RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed once the No.1 ACC has relocated to RAF Coningsby. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton and Kirton-in-Lindsey will be briefed on the progress of the study.
On 10 January 2008, I announced that RAF Boulmer would be retained as the core site for the ASACS Hub but that we needed to do more analysis to determine the optimum basing solution for the remaining ASACS satellite units.
This work has now concluded, and has confirmed that the relocation of the ASACS satellite units to RAF Coningsby is the best option in operational and financial terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, the control and reporting centre—CRC—at RAF Scampton and No.1 air control centre—No.1 ACC—at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will collocate at RAF Coningsby. The relocation is due to complete by the end of 2014.
Following the relocation, it is our intention to draw down RAF Scampton to only those facilities deemed necessary to support the RAF Aerobatic Team’s activities within the reserved airspace above the airfield. RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed once the No.1 ACC has relocated to RAF Coningsby. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton and Kirton-in-Lindsey will be briefed on the progress of the study.
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Scampton's future will no doubt get crys of public support, once Peter Jackson's $66 million remake of the Dambusters is finally released (2011 - Filming starts 2009). It needs random hollywood stars to re-ignite the great unwashed to remember history. Question is, what will be left by then?
Does anyone know if Scampton has been approched for 'locations' for the filming?
Does anyone know if Scampton has been approched for 'locations' for the filming?
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Surely the airfield will be in East Anglia - that is where the B-17s that carried out the raid were based (or will be if we get another "how good old Uncle Sam won the war for the Europeans"). After all, the USN captured the Enigma machine and Guy Gibson was American if the original film is to be believed.....
As they say, history is written by the victors and those with the money.....
As they say, history is written by the victors and those with the money.....
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Why dont they move all the fighter controllers ( or is it battlespace management operatives these days?) to a site in West London. They can pipe all the radars in by data link and control everything from the one place. They tell me there is space at West Drayton. All they need to do then is give the system a fancy name. How about "Linesman"... or has that been tried before?
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Accomodation!!!
The lack of accomodation has ever stoped a move before. Remember the days when Scampton & Conningsby were both the over spill for Waddington. and that was before the AWC & ASTOR arrived there.
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With all due respect, but,
Dont' the scrambled egg and MP's realise that they can't have all their eggs in one basket as it would jeopardise the very defence of the country. In my opinion Fighters need to be based around the whole country, which at present is OK. Overloading Coningsby is going to be a nightmare with all those movements of aircraft and activity of other Units (CRC). 1 ACC I assume will need some sort of hangar aswell, so where do BBMF go?
Wouln't it be easier to have BBMF and the Reds at Scampton? It's heritage is phenomenal and to get rid of it would be awful! I am not even sure if the RAF does need a shuffle
The way it's going, they're will be 4 bases:
Coningsby - FJ
Waddington - ME
XXXX - RW
Cranwell - TRAINING
Tell if I've got a complete misconception of it all!
Dont' the scrambled egg and MP's realise that they can't have all their eggs in one basket as it would jeopardise the very defence of the country. In my opinion Fighters need to be based around the whole country, which at present is OK. Overloading Coningsby is going to be a nightmare with all those movements of aircraft and activity of other Units (CRC). 1 ACC I assume will need some sort of hangar aswell, so where do BBMF go?
Wouln't it be easier to have BBMF and the Reds at Scampton? It's heritage is phenomenal and to get rid of it would be awful! I am not even sure if the RAF does need a shuffle
The way it's going, they're will be 4 bases:Coningsby - FJ
Waddington - ME
XXXX - RW
Cranwell - TRAINING
Tell if I've got a complete misconception of it all!
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RAFAT will be moving to Waddinton, probably towards the end of next year. Their accommodation is already being built. So it follows that once they've gone, Scampton will be abandoned as has been predicted for years.
As for the movie, I believe Stephen Fry is writing the screen play isn't he? I doubt if he'll be letting the story to be Americanised at all. I aslo heard that most of the aircraft imagery was going to be computer generated so if that's the case, I guess it's irrelevant where it's filmed. No doubt it'll be a load of garbage though, even with Mr Fry's input. Presumably Mr.Gibson's dog won't even get a mention...
As for the movie, I believe Stephen Fry is writing the screen play isn't he? I doubt if he'll be letting the story to be Americanised at all. I aslo heard that most of the aircraft imagery was going to be computer generated so if that's the case, I guess it's irrelevant where it's filmed. No doubt it'll be a load of garbage though, even with Mr Fry's input. Presumably Mr.Gibson's dog won't even get a mention...
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RAF Kirton in Lindsey future?
Has anyone heard what will happen to KiL once 1ACC vacate in a couple of years time? Believe the plan is for them to move with the CRC to Conningsby.
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Hi guys, what does the 'control and reporting centre—CRC—at RAF Scampton' do? It sounds like a regional surveillance unit (I'm currently learing about the ATC and ABM trades). I was at Scampton for 3 years until the end of 07 and never knew it was there.
There were rumours when I was there that 1 ACC was be comming along with the SFC from Boulmer, and TCW from Brize. There is apparently problems as there was a combined mess, with the officers mess unfit for habitation (problems replacing the windows as it's a listed building), and all the juniors accomodation out of bounds due to asbestos.
I heard they were going to ship guys backwards and forwards at weekends and the guys would have to live in tents!
They are selling off even more married quarters as I speak and there'll be next to nothing left.
There were also rumours that the Damb Busters film would be filmed in situ, (the original was filmed at Scampton and Kirton Lindsay down the road, but is now completely civilianised).
There were rumours when I was there that 1 ACC was be comming along with the SFC from Boulmer, and TCW from Brize. There is apparently problems as there was a combined mess, with the officers mess unfit for habitation (problems replacing the windows as it's a listed building), and all the juniors accomodation out of bounds due to asbestos.
I heard they were going to ship guys backwards and forwards at weekends and the guys would have to live in tents!
They are selling off even more married quarters as I speak and there'll be next to nothing left.
There were also rumours that the Damb Busters film would be filmed in situ, (the original was filmed at Scampton and Kirton Lindsay down the road, but is now completely civilianised).
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Can I be DBO for today? Please please please!!!
If you were there for "3 years until the end of 07", you can't have failed to miss the works to renovate the old Airmens' Mess opposite SHQ and install a dirty great air-con system and diesel generators behind it in '05, the vast influx of Scopies doubling the Stn manpower overnight and all the fuss as we stood up operationally in '06.
If you were there for "3 years until the end of 07", you can't have failed to miss the works to renovate the old Airmens' Mess opposite SHQ and install a dirty great air-con system and diesel generators behind it in '05, the vast influx of Scopies doubling the Stn manpower overnight and all the fuss as we stood up operationally in '06.
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I may be wrong but I think there is one scene in the Dambusters which was filmed at Kirton. 2 or 3 Lancs are seen taking off - from the grass - heading west over the cliff - and it is not a long runway! Apparently everyone who was watching the takeoff from the control tower held their collective breaths, and when the aircrew were asked to do it again they politely replied in the negative - they only just made it!
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FC Whipping Boy
I don't think we made that much fuss when we opened the CRC at Scampton.
oldspook
Perfectly possible, as the control tower at KiL was (and is still) in very good condition. See here:
KiL Control Tower and History
which also confirms the RA having it (as Rapier Barracks) before 1ACC. As late as 2007 we were still removing scrim scarves from the plumbing systems, as the previous occupants seemed unable to resist the temptation to flush them down their toilets, and it was downhill to the patch.
STH
I don't think we made that much fuss when we opened the CRC at Scampton.
oldspook
Perfectly possible, as the control tower at KiL was (and is still) in very good condition. See here:
KiL Control Tower and History
which also confirms the RA having it (as Rapier Barracks) before 1ACC. As late as 2007 we were still removing scrim scarves from the plumbing systems, as the previous occupants seemed unable to resist the temptation to flush them down their toilets, and it was downhill to the patch.
STH