RAF Meltdown - Has it begun?
The days of being 'knocked off early for sports' by line managers on quiet days (not that we have many quiet days anymore) have gone because line managers are terrified of making decisions concerning their personnel in case they have to justify it to someone, so the troops are invariably just left staring at the wall until the shift ends. A very minor matter but one of the many straws on the camel's back.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fully agree with you. There seems to be far to much passing the buck when when things go wrong when lack of leadership/information is one of the main reasons mistakes happen.
A very young SAC MT driver at a certain North Hampshire helicopter unit was recently charged for turning up at a uniform check parade late, even though the lad in question turned up at the time proclaimed by the many posters around the section, of which he managed to get a copy. A word-of-mouth change to times had been made but unfortunately the chap was away at the time.
The hearing officer advised him before the charge was read not to bother fighting it as it would just make things worse, surly not the correct procedure for such things?
Ahhh, Odious, the unit that just loves to charge. (But then again you don't even have to be charged at Odious to find one of your personnel sweeping-up on SWO's gang, great use of highly qualified personnel if ever there was one. Wonder how come LEAN has never picked it up?)
A very young SAC MT driver at a certain North Hampshire helicopter unit was recently charged for turning up at a uniform check parade late, even though the lad in question turned up at the time proclaimed by the many posters around the section, of which he managed to get a copy. A word-of-mouth change to times had been made but unfortunately the chap was away at the time.
The hearing officer advised him before the charge was read not to bother fighting it as it would just make things worse, surly not the correct procedure for such things?
Ahhh, Odious, the unit that just loves to charge. (But then again you don't even have to be charged at Odious to find one of your personnel sweeping-up on SWO's gang, great use of highly qualified personnel if ever there was one. Wonder how come LEAN has never picked it up?)
Hello all, I am newly registered here but have been reading posts for a few weeks now. I had to write a post about this particular quote.
Being a member of the above 'wonderful' unit, I am appalled at the actions of the said section. I know of the charge (it happened while I was away). I am going to find out tomorrow, the circumstances of how this happened. The thing I am worried about is the 'seniors' closing ranks and myself ending up in the poo. I know this would happen because I myself am having some problems and I am a JNCO. There is nowhere to turn. This has to be THE worst unit I have ever been to. I can't believe it. The morale is AWFUL and its clear to see why yet no one will do anything about it!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: elgin
Age: 51
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not entirely gone. As much as everyone complains about Lean, having made some of my flt's bays more efficient we can do more work with fewer people and still get people down to the gym... Of course it helps that our Staish has consistantly rammed home to everyone that "fun" is high on his list of prorities.
So why do we have to wait for everything to be sent from the swamp? what work are you actually doing apart from sending things away????? One only has to look across the airfield at the "Fun Station" to see the effects of Lean 16/17 kites used to be the order of the day but it's been the effect of Lean to see 6/7 everyday. Go into any Rects and explain to me why you are going to the gym when all I can see is awaiting spares and my guys are "robbing" mad working longer so you can work fitter.
Love to see a direct comparision between the PVR rates of the "cushy life" in the bays and the real world. Not havin a go at you rather the half arsssed Lean events that have crippled spares.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 84
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The hearing officer advised him before the charge was read not to bother fighting it as it would just make things worse, surly not the correct procedure for such things"?
Absolutely not. If an injustice is being done, and it appears that way if what has been posted is correct, then why can't one or more of the many serving officers on Prune find out the facts and intervene? Aren't you all on the same team?
Absolutely not. If an injustice is being done, and it appears that way if what has been posted is correct, then why can't one or more of the many serving officers on Prune find out the facts and intervene? Aren't you all on the same team?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 47
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking with P1 experience, said airman should appeal against the charge on the grounds that the correct procedures were not carried out. Examples like this only provide more ammunition to those who say summary justice has come to its end.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: "Sunny" Cornwall
Age: 52
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can we charge people for not being psychic?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reliable source confirmed that he was late for the parade. The parade wasn't brought forward he was just late. However, someone somewhere obviously has a different view and we all know what happens with chinese whispers....things change. It is worrying though if the SAC who was charged was told 'not to take it further as it won't help'. Surely thats not the right thing to advise???!!!???
TSL said:
"Can we charge people for not being psychic?"
Only in Hindsight!
IMO this is all hearsay and can't be proven one way or the other - and...
Why are you discussing it here?
Go somewhere else or start a new Forum/thread!
(e.g. Barrackroom Lawyers - free useless advice offered)
"Can we charge people for not being psychic?"
Only in Hindsight!
IMO this is all hearsay and can't be proven one way or the other - and...
Why are you discussing it here?
Go somewhere else or start a new Forum/thread!
(e.g. Barrackroom Lawyers - free useless advice offered)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember back in the late 1980's when an SAC, at a secret airbase in Oxon, was charged for using a multi-point socket in his accommodation, contrary to SRO's, by an over-zealous officer who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. The SAC was found guilty of this heinous crime and duly punished.
There were lots of people leaving in those days too......and morale was terrible.
There were lots of people leaving in those days too......and morale was terrible.
Last edited by nigegilb; 6th Dec 2006 at 14:06.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Angleterre
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The hearing officer advised him before the charge was read not to bother fighting it as it would just make things worse, surly not the correct procedure for such things
The above advice is a disgrace, but may well be reality. Especially if the advisor knew what (token) punishment was being proposed. What punishment was given?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I stood on principle once, and had a letter from a solicitor advising a Wg Cdr of the error of his ways. I won the case in question and he positively destroyed my career in the following three years OJARs. High Rec to LTBF for example.
The above advice is a disgrace, but may well be reality. Especially if the advisor knew what (token) punishment was being proposed. What punishment was given?
The above advice is a disgrace, but may well be reality. Especially if the advisor knew what (token) punishment was being proposed. What punishment was given?
As far as I am aware he got 7 days Jankers.
The reason why this case, rightly or wrongly, is being discussed is because it was instanced as an example of lack of leadership. I would say that whatever the facts of the case it seems to meet that criteria. Even, or perhaps especially, military justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Here, on the face of it, is a case where it wasn't, if the cynical advice quoted was in fact given. This thread is entitled "RAF meltdown - Has it begun?". The posts relating to this story may not answer that question, but if the simple answer to that question is yes, they may well indicate why!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 6 miles 14
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chugalug2, agreed however, to get back on track and on just as serious a note is it really true that aircraft availability is actually falling due to lean etc? Is Robbing, or should that be canibalisation, now endemic due to a lack of even basic spares? Is the huge numbers of engineers recently made redundant not having a positive effect on ac availability as it was stated it would? Time between maintenance increases surely means more jets for the two winged master race to play with and not more knackered jets grounded due to lack of spares and experienced engineers to fix them? Discuss!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NE Scot
Age: 59
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When we can't even get the simple things like nuts, bolts, washers and clamps etc without having to put in state demands we have no hope of making flying programs and keeping aircraft in the air do we
Registered User **
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is the huge numbers of engineers recently made redundant not having a positive effect on ac availability as it was stated it would?
S_H
Chugalug2, agreed however, to get back on track and on just as serious a note is it really true that aircraft availability is actually falling due to lean etc? Is Robbing, or should that be canibalisation, now endemic due to a lack of even basic spares? Is the huge numbers of engineers recently made redundant not having a positive effect on ac availability as it was stated it would? Time between maintenance increases surely means more jets for the two winged master race to play with and not more knackered jets grounded due to lack of spares and experienced engineers to fix them? Discuss!
It seems from a distance as though the RAF, and for that matter the Armed Forces as a whole, are caught in a chain reaction of reductio ad absurdum. It reminds me of a friend who passed his annual medical year after year, with a well done each time from the MO for the steady weight loss he had achieved . It was only after other symptoms kicked in that the MO realised that what he was enthusing over was some wasting disease!
So indeed all the points noted on this thread are symtomatic of such a disease, or as its title so aptly puts it "meltdown". Spares and other shortages can be made good in fairly short order if the "MO" admits that he got it wrong, but trained experienced people who have PVR'd, etc, are a completely different scenario. That is why when they are almost goaded into it by incompetent leadership at whatever level it is unforgivable. Everyone in authority, from Cpl to ACM, should be aware of their responsibilities to their subordinates. Many posts on this forum would suggest that a high proportion are more concerned with the way the system has failed them rather than vice-versa. Perhaps it's the same problem, but from a different perspective?
Wow Chug!
I now understand and recognise that you are unable to operate Babel Fish at this time and are either incapable or unwilling to adapt to “Newspeak” - by which I expect you mean new terminology or new translations of old terminology.
But you can’t half babble-on!
It took me AGES to cut through your verbosity and find the point you actually made (I think?)
What really stunned me though…was that…
I agree with you.
I now understand and recognise that you are unable to operate Babel Fish at this time and are either incapable or unwilling to adapt to “Newspeak” - by which I expect you mean new terminology or new translations of old terminology.
But you can’t half babble-on!
It took me AGES to cut through your verbosity and find the point you actually made (I think?)
What really stunned me though…was that…
I agree with you.
Last edited by Rigga; 7th Dec 2006 at 11:55. Reason: Stunned that I wrote all that when that last line said it!