UK Armed Forces 'Below Strength'
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In a place where I dont have to fly for food.
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South Wales
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I too got my redundancy. Also got picked up for my crown at the same time. Quick hard think – took redundancy.
Had a great – no fantastic! - 28 years and have done things most people (even RAF people) can only dream of.
No regrets and I would not change the past. But time to move on.
What saddens me, is young people chomping at the bit to get out. When I say young, I mean bright young intelligent people, who in my time, would have “Risen above the rest”.
Something is wrong – very wrong. I have a few ideas, but it is pointless talking about them here.
Had a great – no fantastic! - 28 years and have done things most people (even RAF people) can only dream of.
No regrets and I would not change the past. But time to move on.
What saddens me, is young people chomping at the bit to get out. When I say young, I mean bright young intelligent people, who in my time, would have “Risen above the rest”.
Something is wrong – very wrong. I have a few ideas, but it is pointless talking about them here.
Join Date: May 2006
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Many of us do but don't have the influence to make the advice stick. You need to get the likes of Lord Tim Garden on the case - he's posted here before now.
I'm out in 26 days!
I have had an amazing 25 years, been places and done things that most people could not imagine. Worked with some outstanding people and thoroughly enjoyed the financial and job security. I have always seen the RAF as a way of life, not just a job or even a career.
Why am I leaving? Several reasons. The way we are being run and administered as a civilian entity, highlighted by the rediculous management speak that has infected every corner of our lives. The 'Customer' based ethos we are now immerged in. The fact that some fcukwit in the top office gets wound up about how you present your work without even considering the merits of the actual content.
All that however, is smallfry compared to the pace of change. I am sick and tired of forever being involved in the next good idea, the next trial, the latest reorganisation, the latest document/paper/brief/instruction/SOP that seem to arrive like at an eyewatering pace. More irritating than that is the total lack of consolidation. We try a new idea and then gallop straight on to the next without pause for breath. The majority of it, IMHO, is wasteful, unnecessary and usually the result of someones bid for stardom. OK, not all the time and we do need new ideas and methods BUT not at todays pace. E-mail is a curse, I have been on standdown for 2 days and come in this morning to 80 e-mails. 20 contained large documents that are supposed to be read and/or actioned. It goes on and on to the extent that you don't know where the hell you are or who is doing what.
I know I will be slated for this but, in the eyes of the public, how can we claim overstretch when we can put 9 Red Arrows in the Sunderland Air Show but only 7 Harriers in Afghanistan. It just does not add up. OK, the Red Arrows are great PR, really? Who wants to join a service that puts more effort into showboating than supporting its people at the sharp end? That's how Joe Public will see it.
It seems to me that ever since the carbunckle known as Investors in People, we have stopped doing just that. JPA is crap (more later). The Armed Forces are unique, not just another branch of Woolworths and, as such, we need to be looked after in a unique way. That means being able to go face to face with service support personnel who understand the issues, have similar experiences and can (mostly) deal with your problems, allowing you time to concentrate on your primary task. Not logging on to some web site and then talking to a call centre operator whose only claim to fame is a Grade F in Media Studies.
The standard of medical care has gone through the floor. When I joined there were at least four Military Hospitals. Today, with war raging in the Middle East, not one. Our troops are stuck in any old ward where they can be rebuked by any passing 'brother of Islam', it is a disgrace.
Beauracracy. It is strangling the very lifeblood out of the service. The amount of hassle just to get a frigging rail ticket is rediculous. You can do well at your job and nothing is said. Pay your Mess Bill a day late and the gates of hell seem to open. Don't put your car pass in exactly the right place and everyone wants to know your name. CCS, waste of time. RAFT. Did mine in Jan and passed. Got a snottogram in May saying I was out of date and in line for a one way interview. The reason? New financial year so had to be done again. So, nothing to do with fitness, just another tick in the right box at the right time.
Troops out of area. Lots has been said on this forum by people far better qualified than me but, sufficed to say, long time away from home, minimal support. Why are we not putting as much effort into replacing the AT fleet as we are into bringing the Typhoon into service? The former actually goes further than the UK FIR Boundary.
Finally, back to JPA. I leave in 26 days after 22 years in the Regular RAF and 3 years as a Full Time Reservist. You would think that all that I had to think about was emptying my draw and organising the final beers. No chance. I am owed over £1000.00 through JPA. I moved out of my FQ into a private house some months ago. I am still paying FQ rent, garage rent and service Poll Tax. That is on top of my commercial rent and local Poll Tax. After 4 phone calls, countless e-mails and 2 letters I am no further forward. I have been told that the chances of it being resolved in time for my exit are next to none. Not good enough. I would like to leave with a smile, a handshake and my head held high. If I have to do it by overturning some tables and removing the odd door from its hinges then so be it. I have kept my end of the bargain, the powers that be can f
ing well keep theirs.
To those still left, good luck and I will miss you. To those that are joining or thinking of joining, I wish you well. To you the RAF is as it is and you will adapt. Good luck.
I am told that PPRUNE is required reading by those on Staff Courses. Hope you enjoyed it Gents. Now back to working out how Customer 1 can shaft Customer 2 and still look good, whilst sidestepping all blame.
I have had an amazing 25 years, been places and done things that most people could not imagine. Worked with some outstanding people and thoroughly enjoyed the financial and job security. I have always seen the RAF as a way of life, not just a job or even a career.
Why am I leaving? Several reasons. The way we are being run and administered as a civilian entity, highlighted by the rediculous management speak that has infected every corner of our lives. The 'Customer' based ethos we are now immerged in. The fact that some fcukwit in the top office gets wound up about how you present your work without even considering the merits of the actual content.
All that however, is smallfry compared to the pace of change. I am sick and tired of forever being involved in the next good idea, the next trial, the latest reorganisation, the latest document/paper/brief/instruction/SOP that seem to arrive like at an eyewatering pace. More irritating than that is the total lack of consolidation. We try a new idea and then gallop straight on to the next without pause for breath. The majority of it, IMHO, is wasteful, unnecessary and usually the result of someones bid for stardom. OK, not all the time and we do need new ideas and methods BUT not at todays pace. E-mail is a curse, I have been on standdown for 2 days and come in this morning to 80 e-mails. 20 contained large documents that are supposed to be read and/or actioned. It goes on and on to the extent that you don't know where the hell you are or who is doing what.
I know I will be slated for this but, in the eyes of the public, how can we claim overstretch when we can put 9 Red Arrows in the Sunderland Air Show but only 7 Harriers in Afghanistan. It just does not add up. OK, the Red Arrows are great PR, really? Who wants to join a service that puts more effort into showboating than supporting its people at the sharp end? That's how Joe Public will see it.
It seems to me that ever since the carbunckle known as Investors in People, we have stopped doing just that. JPA is crap (more later). The Armed Forces are unique, not just another branch of Woolworths and, as such, we need to be looked after in a unique way. That means being able to go face to face with service support personnel who understand the issues, have similar experiences and can (mostly) deal with your problems, allowing you time to concentrate on your primary task. Not logging on to some web site and then talking to a call centre operator whose only claim to fame is a Grade F in Media Studies.
The standard of medical care has gone through the floor. When I joined there were at least four Military Hospitals. Today, with war raging in the Middle East, not one. Our troops are stuck in any old ward where they can be rebuked by any passing 'brother of Islam', it is a disgrace.
Beauracracy. It is strangling the very lifeblood out of the service. The amount of hassle just to get a frigging rail ticket is rediculous. You can do well at your job and nothing is said. Pay your Mess Bill a day late and the gates of hell seem to open. Don't put your car pass in exactly the right place and everyone wants to know your name. CCS, waste of time. RAFT. Did mine in Jan and passed. Got a snottogram in May saying I was out of date and in line for a one way interview. The reason? New financial year so had to be done again. So, nothing to do with fitness, just another tick in the right box at the right time.
Troops out of area. Lots has been said on this forum by people far better qualified than me but, sufficed to say, long time away from home, minimal support. Why are we not putting as much effort into replacing the AT fleet as we are into bringing the Typhoon into service? The former actually goes further than the UK FIR Boundary.
Finally, back to JPA. I leave in 26 days after 22 years in the Regular RAF and 3 years as a Full Time Reservist. You would think that all that I had to think about was emptying my draw and organising the final beers. No chance. I am owed over £1000.00 through JPA. I moved out of my FQ into a private house some months ago. I am still paying FQ rent, garage rent and service Poll Tax. That is on top of my commercial rent and local Poll Tax. After 4 phone calls, countless e-mails and 2 letters I am no further forward. I have been told that the chances of it being resolved in time for my exit are next to none. Not good enough. I would like to leave with a smile, a handshake and my head held high. If I have to do it by overturning some tables and removing the odd door from its hinges then so be it. I have kept my end of the bargain, the powers that be can f
ing well keep theirs.To those still left, good luck and I will miss you. To those that are joining or thinking of joining, I wish you well. To you the RAF is as it is and you will adapt. Good luck.
I am told that PPRUNE is required reading by those on Staff Courses. Hope you enjoyed it Gents. Now back to working out how Customer 1 can shaft Customer 2 and still look good, whilst sidestepping all blame.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Wyler,
Frankly, I agree with every sentiment. One still lives in hope that evntually someone with the right level of clout will n b just how f##ked-up things have got, but I'm not holding my breath!
Frankly, I agree with every sentiment. One still lives in hope that evntually someone with the right level of clout will n b just how f##ked-up things have got, but I'm not holding my breath!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Well put Wyler. FWIW in my opinion there's nothing wrong with a media studies qualification (which I don't have btw!) but it needs to be an "A" rather than an "F" to be of any real value to anyone - but yes, I know what you mean!
"I would like to leave with a smile, a handshake and my head held high."
You'll be lucky. After 35 years I received neither smile nor handshake.
Face it. With a few exceptions, those above you only follow 'Per ardua ad astra' if it's through your hardship to their stars. Stand your ground, even if you're 100% correct, and you'll simply be $hat upon...
The air smells much cleaner on the outside.
You'll be lucky. After 35 years I received neither smile nor handshake.
Face it. With a few exceptions, those above you only follow 'Per ardua ad astra' if it's through your hardship to their stars. Stand your ground, even if you're 100% correct, and you'll simply be $hat upon...
The air smells much cleaner on the outside.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Well said that man
I agree with your every word friend. I have just been working with some spams and they get a 50% pension after just 20 years instead of our 35 yrs or so
They also have the topical tax free monthly pay, every time they cross a lat n long in a geographical region which has troubles, and "we" are just in the process of being fobbed off by teflon Tone with the £2000 annual bonus which, IMHO, most of us will miraculously not qualify for.
Sold out to the lowest bidder
Wyler, good luck matey, leave the door ajar as I'm right behind you
Regards, Ginge
I agree with your every word friend. I have just been working with some spams and they get a 50% pension after just 20 years instead of our 35 yrs or so
They also have the topical tax free monthly pay, every time they cross a lat n long in a geographical region which has troubles, and "we" are just in the process of being fobbed off by teflon Tone with the £2000 annual bonus which, IMHO, most of us will miraculously not qualify for.
Sold out to the lowest bidder
Wyler, good luck matey, leave the door ajar as I'm right behind you
Regards, Ginge
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Don't overlook the changing face of society and culture as a major factor in what is happening here. In the 60's, 70's and 80's the threat was communism and Russia. Everything was geared towards combating that threat, and generally, the great unwashed agreed that it was a real threat. Life in the services had a purpose and a focus, the odd war popped up from time to time for some diversity in training and role execution, but we all knew what we there for, and being the military instruments of the Government of the day posed few problems for the majority. Everybody still griped about terms and conditions, it's the nature of the military beast after all, but you could always balance it against the greater good and goals of the larger political objective.
What has changed, is that the disenfranchising of the Services through such means as civilianization of supporting services, local budgetary controls that undermine terms and conditions, and general petty minded bureaucracy, has been matched with the moral bankruptcy of the Government in its military endeavours. So while the military benefits and life style are being eroded on a daily basis, the raison d'etre for serving Queen and country has been hijacked by a bunch of political spivs who are in it purely for themselves. This is being reflected in the attitude of those leaving today, who would clearly be able to tolerate the poor conditions and low morale if only it was to serve some higher calling or purpose (we all sign that piece of paper, after all). Instead they see 20 years plus of service to the country being gambled and squandered by a bunch of second rate chancers and gamblers. Grounds indeed for heading for the life boats, while there are still some left.
Good luck and thanks to all of you.
What has changed, is that the disenfranchising of the Services through such means as civilianization of supporting services, local budgetary controls that undermine terms and conditions, and general petty minded bureaucracy, has been matched with the moral bankruptcy of the Government in its military endeavours. So while the military benefits and life style are being eroded on a daily basis, the raison d'etre for serving Queen and country has been hijacked by a bunch of political spivs who are in it purely for themselves. This is being reflected in the attitude of those leaving today, who would clearly be able to tolerate the poor conditions and low morale if only it was to serve some higher calling or purpose (we all sign that piece of paper, after all). Instead they see 20 years plus of service to the country being gambled and squandered by a bunch of second rate chancers and gamblers. Grounds indeed for heading for the life boats, while there are still some left.
Good luck and thanks to all of you.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I left 12 years ago, similar reasons to Wyler. "New Management Strategy" (= No More Sunshine) did it for me.
Most of the problems we now see come from a government regime that rattled on about the so-called "peace dividend", using that phrase as an excuse to run things on the cheap but subsequently sent our forces to war three times......
A government that is proud of our services only when some political gain can be made from it.
Most of the problems we now see come from a government regime that rattled on about the so-called "peace dividend", using that phrase as an excuse to run things on the cheap but subsequently sent our forces to war three times......
A government that is proud of our services only when some political gain can be made from it.
Eloquently put Wyler,
The practice of treating us as a business is now coming to fruition; to continue the business jargon -
We are an insurance policy and the holder has not been paying his premiums and now he is trying to cash in finds he cannot.
The only business I know that takes a watch OFF you when you leave!
Best of luck in the future, wherever that takes you
The practice of treating us as a business is now coming to fruition; to continue the business jargon -
We are an insurance policy and the holder has not been paying his premiums and now he is trying to cash in finds he cannot.
The only business I know that takes a watch OFF you when you leave!
Best of luck in the future, wherever that takes you
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Wyler your post seems to have pushed a few emotional buttons, maybe others who are quitting should post their reasons in public. There is nothing quite like the truth, it cannot be spun against and makes the decision makers extremely nervous. Witness the wild eyed reaction to General Dannatt's comments.
Best of luck to you, I don't think you will regret it, just as I doubt you will regret any of your time served.
Best of luck to you, I don't think you will regret it, just as I doubt you will regret any of your time served.
Join Date: May 2006
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I thought I saw it all coming which is why I left 13 years ago. This, other threads and all the news I get from mates still in have served only to convinced me I made the right choice. I've never looked back.
As BEagle said, the air is sweeter outside.
As BEagle said, the air is sweeter outside.
Last edited by GlosMikeP; 4th Nov 2006 at 20:03. Reason: typo
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Karl von Clauswitz said:
“War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means.”
We are just political tools nowadays, much more than we ever were. Someone once said that "it is good that war is so terrible, lest we like it too much", unfortunately no-one told the Government, perhaps we have made war a bit to easy to play nowadays...
“War is nothing more than the continuation of politics by other means.”
We are just political tools nowadays, much more than we ever were. Someone once said that "it is good that war is so terrible, lest we like it too much", unfortunately no-one told the Government, perhaps we have made war a bit to easy to play nowadays...