More dosh, less tax
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Putting it in perspective
Better than nothing, and good to see that HMG have at least accepted the case for doing something in this direction. BUT:
£2,240 for a 6-month tour is approximately equivalent to the income tax, but not including the National Insurance Contributions, due to be paid for that period by someone earning a little over £16,000 pa. for that period. So, somewhere about the level of a private soldier. However, this doesn't take into account any loss of entitlement to tax credits and the like, since presumably the bonus payment will qualify as extra income when assessing those.
Better than nothing. But not very much better than nothing. And certainly not "better" than tax free earnings while in an operational area overseas, SofS. And £2,240 is not much of a bonus for very definitely putting your life on the line for 6 months. Please spare us the spin.
Regards
Ginseng
£2,240 for a 6-month tour is approximately equivalent to the income tax, but not including the National Insurance Contributions, due to be paid for that period by someone earning a little over £16,000 pa. for that period. So, somewhere about the level of a private soldier. However, this doesn't take into account any loss of entitlement to tax credits and the like, since presumably the bonus payment will qualify as extra income when assessing those.
Better than nothing. But not very much better than nothing. And certainly not "better" than tax free earnings while in an operational area overseas, SofS. And £2,240 is not much of a bonus for very definitely putting your life on the line for 6 months. Please spare us the spin.
Regards
Ginseng
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Just watched the speech again. He did specifically say tax free, and the wording seemed to suggest that the 2 thousand odd was representative of a six month period - not that six months would be the qualifying period. Don't know how he kept a straight face when he said "I believe we can do better" though.
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This is a con, and it's only starting to become apparent now.
It's a bonus, therefore the entitlements can be changed - locations, time qualifications and amounts. The link between tax, and this bonus, does not exist except to back up their figures. If the rate of income tax changed tomorrow, the rate of the bonus would stay the same.
They are using a clever juxtaposition with the word "tax" to make people think it's tax related - it's not. This bears no relation to your liability for tax at all. What we wanted was a change to Income Tax regulations to remove the liability to pay tax when out of UK territories for 183 days of more. We have been sold out for a cheap headline.
Look at how they are managing to fund this. Increase in MQ rents to bring them in line with the civilian sector. Reviews of CEA and other allowances. It's aimed at a very low level to recruit and retain (forget the "Warrant Officer" quote - it only works to a mid-level Corporals wages). I think that the BAFF may have been sold a dummy, it appears that ARRSE are only just starting to realise the true implications, and Gordon Brown is laughing all the way to the bank.
It's a bonus, therefore the entitlements can be changed - locations, time qualifications and amounts. The link between tax, and this bonus, does not exist except to back up their figures. If the rate of income tax changed tomorrow, the rate of the bonus would stay the same.
They are using a clever juxtaposition with the word "tax" to make people think it's tax related - it's not. This bears no relation to your liability for tax at all. What we wanted was a change to Income Tax regulations to remove the liability to pay tax when out of UK territories for 183 days of more. We have been sold out for a cheap headline.
Look at how they are managing to fund this. Increase in MQ rents to bring them in line with the civilian sector. Reviews of CEA and other allowances. It's aimed at a very low level to recruit and retain (forget the "Warrant Officer" quote - it only works to a mid-level Corporals wages). I think that the BAFF may have been sold a dummy, it appears that ARRSE are only just starting to realise the true implications, and Gordon Brown is laughing all the way to the bank.
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I Demand a Recount!
Oops.
After a rapid reassessment, necessitated by my inability to divide a number by 2 and come out with the answer "one-half", I have to admit that £2.240 actually equates to approximately the Income Tax and NICs for a 6-month period due on an annual income of about £25,000 (assuming normal personal allowances and no other forms of taxable income). Mea Culpa. Better than I thought, but I still don't think it's wonderful.
Regards
Ginseng
After a rapid reassessment, necessitated by my inability to divide a number by 2 and come out with the answer "one-half", I have to admit that £2.240 actually equates to approximately the Income Tax and NICs for a 6-month period due on an annual income of about £25,000 (assuming normal personal allowances and no other forms of taxable income). Mea Culpa. Better than I thought, but I still don't think it's wonderful.
Regards
Ginseng
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Nice to hear that the motherland has finally thought of compensating HM Forces for being shot at.....We've been looked after for years down under.
There was nothing that my RAF nosegunner hated more during Telic I than me making my cash machine "Ker-ching!" call every time we crossed the border.
Hope that it is suitably large and that you don't get rodgered!
There was nothing that my RAF nosegunner hated more during Telic I than me making my cash machine "Ker-ching!" call every time we crossed the border.
Hope that it is suitably large and that you don't get rodgered!
If so the boys diown the back usually forgave you the extra dosh when you bought the vino!
To qoute from the link...
The bonus will be worth around £2,240 to eligible personnel completing a six-month operational tour, roughly equivalent to the amount of tax paid over a six month operational tour by our most junior personnel. Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours.
So it would appear a tour doesn't have to be 6 months.....
The bonus will be worth around £2,240 to eligible personnel completing a six-month operational tour, roughly equivalent to the amount of tax paid over a six month operational tour by our most junior personnel. Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours.
So it would appear a tour doesn't have to be 6 months.....
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The way all the media are reporting it, they make it sound like at the end of your tour, the pay office (or, god forbid, the JPA 'super'computer) work out how long your tour was, and give you a tax free bonus. That's not actually what Des Browne said. I quote:
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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The way all the media are reporting it, they make it sound like at the end of your tour, the pay office (or, god forbid, the JPA 'super'computer) work out how long your tour was, and give you a tax free bonus. That's not actually what Des Browne said. I quote:
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Every Government cloud has a lining which is designed to shower you alternately with ****e and sunshine.
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But one of the points I've picked up on is this:
Quote:
"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."
For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Quote:
"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."
For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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But one of the points I've picked up on is this:
Quote:
"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."
For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Quote:
"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."
For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
For example.......
Your taxable income is £21597 as a Lower Spine, Level 9 OR1.
The tax you pay on the first £2,150 is £215 (taxed at 10%).
This leaves £21597- £2,150 = £19447. This is taxed at 22%.
22% of £19447 is £4278.34
So total tax is £215 plus £4278.34= £4493.34 pa (half is £2246.67)
Navy: Levels 1-9 – Able Rate
R.M.: Levels 1-9 – Marine: Levels 5-9
Lance Corporal (or RM passed JCC)
Army: Levels 1-7 – Private: Levels 5-9
Lance Corporal
RAF: Level 1 Aircraftmen & Leading
Aircraftmen.
Levels 2-9 – Senior Aircraftmen: Level
5-9 Junior Tech/Senior Aircraftmen(T)
Will also cover OF1 up to Level 5. Everyone else is not on break even or profit.
* Does not include free pay under your tax code. Everyone seems to have a different one, so add your free allowance to this figure!
Last edited by PompeySailor; 11th Oct 2006 at 09:04.
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I was 50% of the crew and there was no-one sitting behind me - at least not in the same jet.
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What Des actually said was "everyone on operations will be equally better off, by just under £100 per week, free of tax".
It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."
Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"
It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."
Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"
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What Des actually said was "everyone on operations will be equally better off, by just under £100 per week, free of tax".
It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."
Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"
It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."
Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"
Sit tight, all will become clear once the rounds of frenzied meetings in the corridors of power in SW1 have settled down.
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ROFLOL
Oral statement to the House of Commons by Rt Hon Des Browne MP on Tuesday 10 October 2006:
Now I want to compare the printed speech with what he said.
Oral statement to the House of Commons by Rt Hon Des Browne MP on Tuesday 10 October 2006:
Now I want to compare the printed speech with what he said.
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£380 per month tax is roughly what you'd pay (in income tax, big change if include NICs) if you earned around £27k per year, so that's your break-even point. Not bad, to be fair. Still rather not pay income tax though.
Last edited by potatoman; 11th Oct 2006 at 11:50. Reason: hideous dw error
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