Defending the Harrier - I need ammunition
Report on page 23 of the Oct 06 edition, under the main commentary on "Wings over Europe" is a sub-section "Red Harriers", a highly paraphrased extract from which is:
Among the nations interested in the Harrier was the People's Republic of China. During the 1970s John Farley was asked to give a flight in a 2-seat harrier to the second-in-command of the People's Liberation Army Air Force - a current MiG pilot............However a combination of UK inflation and the hot,high environment from where they would be operating put paid to the idea. As a postscript, after the Falkland's war the same General contacted John to say "If we had realised how good the Harrier was we would have found the money for it somehow!"
Among the nations interested in the Harrier was the People's Republic of China. During the 1970s John Farley was asked to give a flight in a 2-seat harrier to the second-in-command of the People's Liberation Army Air Force - a current MiG pilot............However a combination of UK inflation and the hot,high environment from where they would be operating put paid to the idea. As a postscript, after the Falkland's war the same General contacted John to say "If we had realised how good the Harrier was we would have found the money for it somehow!"
From the National Archives:
"Covering dates: 1973 April 11
Scope and content: Defence implications of the sale of Harrier aircraft and Spey aircraft engines to China.
Access conditions: Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
Held by: The National Archives, Kew"
Images of Harrier GR.3, serial XZ965, on display in China. I believe that the late Ray Hanna swapped the GR.3 for an La-9?!
http://afwing.com/gallery/beijing.htm
Maybe John Farley can add some more info on the snippets from this webpage?
http://harrier.hyperlinx.cz/gallery/mod8.htm
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While, at first look, it should be relatively straight-forward to bolt the AV-8B gun onto a GR7/9. I believe a major stumbling block / expense would be that no other box / structure / weapon on the aircraft has had vibration testing to the required level (ie to demonstrate that they can survive the vibration of repeated gun firings). Not sure whether this could be circumvented by an OEC though - anyone from IPT world able to shed any light?
Add to that the woeful (IMHO) reluctance by the UK and US Harrier worlds to share knowledge, (eg look at the OSCAR/H20/H40 upgrade to the AV-8B and how it is almost identical to the GR9 programme, but both have been planned and run in complete isolation) it would be a break with tradition for us to just grab their gun, bolt it on and go.
Without a nice APG-65 or Blue Vixen in the front to give you a radar CCIP, the GR7/9's aiming options would realistically limit it to an area weapon - which is what we have with CRV-7 anyway. Finally, now we strap the TIALD pod on the gun station anyway (on some jets), and we didn't buy the big engine for the whole fleet so could really do without having to carry the extra 1000lb of weight around unless it's absolutely necessary. Overall I don't think it's as simple as 'we want a gun, and that one on the shelf looks nice and shiney' - but in principle it's a great idea.
Regards,
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
Add to that the woeful (IMHO) reluctance by the UK and US Harrier worlds to share knowledge, (eg look at the OSCAR/H20/H40 upgrade to the AV-8B and how it is almost identical to the GR9 programme, but both have been planned and run in complete isolation) it would be a break with tradition for us to just grab their gun, bolt it on and go.
Without a nice APG-65 or Blue Vixen in the front to give you a radar CCIP, the GR7/9's aiming options would realistically limit it to an area weapon - which is what we have with CRV-7 anyway. Finally, now we strap the TIALD pod on the gun station anyway (on some jets), and we didn't buy the big engine for the whole fleet so could really do without having to carry the extra 1000lb of weight around unless it's absolutely necessary. Overall I don't think it's as simple as 'we want a gun, and that one on the shelf looks nice and shiney' - but in principle it's a great idea.
Regards,
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
SSSETHOWF,
So without radar the GR7/9 is limited to delivering "area" weapons. What about ARBS/GPS Baro etc? What's the CEP on dumb deliveries from 45deg, 10,000ft? Let me tell you, it aint changed from when I did it and it wasn't much then!
So without radar the GR7/9 is limited to delivering "area" weapons. What about ARBS/GPS Baro etc? What's the CEP on dumb deliveries from 45deg, 10,000ft? Let me tell you, it aint changed from when I did it and it wasn't much then!
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Add to that the woeful (IMHO) reluctance by the UK and US Harrier worlds to share knowledge, (eg look at the OSCAR/H20/H40 upgrade to the AV-8B and how it is almost identical to the GR9 programme, but both have been planned and run in complete isolation) it would be a break with tradition for us to just grab their gun, bolt it on and go.
Not having the radar for ranging does degrade slant range calculation but it doesn't seem to be an order of magnitude difference than the ARBs, GPS etc...
Losing the gun station for the TIALD is an issue too, USMC is currently working putting the LITENING on centerline but it's not yet approved. Not sure if that's even an option for GR9.
