Vc-10 Mel
VC10 MEL??
No such thing.
ELRATs are checked on Air Test. No way of testing serviceability until you drop the thing, so who knows whether or not it's serviceable.
No such thing.
ELRATs are checked on Air Test. No way of testing serviceability until you drop the thing, so who knows whether or not it's serviceable.
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MEL
Course there is an MEL for the VC10, just we call it a Go,No Go list. You cant get an Airworthiness Cert without one and as the VC10 had a civvie AW Cert then an MEL had to exist.
As Beagle reports the ELRAT is tested on Air Test and presumed servicable for subsequent flights, just as the drop down oxygen and loo flush etc is. If a crew member has reason to suspect any item of equipment is US then a risk assessment against the MEL (Go,No Go) list is made. Usually, as I remember, a captains wet finger in the air.
Or is it a wet captains finger in the air!
As Beagle reports the ELRAT is tested on Air Test and presumed servicable for subsequent flights, just as the drop down oxygen and loo flush etc is. If a crew member has reason to suspect any item of equipment is US then a risk assessment against the MEL (Go,No Go) list is made. Usually, as I remember, a captains wet finger in the air.
Or is it a wet captains finger in the air!
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Of course you'd know whether it was serviceable or not. You'd get an ECAM message and then appropriate advice/checks etc.
Sorry, getting mixed up; it's been a year or two! Klingon is right - I seem to remember it was the wet finger that was the final arbiter.
Sorry, getting mixed up; it's been a year or two! Klingon is right - I seem to remember it was the wet finger that was the final arbiter.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies, guess I didn't articulate my question correctly! what I really wanted to know was, if the ELRAT was known to be U/S, what would the "go, no go" list say?
OK.. got the response from EotB, thanks. Surprised though that the VC-10's have ECAM, I thought those things (the 10's) were positively archaic. Thanks.
OK.. got the response from EotB, thanks. Surprised though that the VC-10's have ECAM, I thought those things (the 10's) were positively archaic. Thanks.
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*makes whoooooosh noise*
There is an ECAM- he's usually wearing a slightly-too-tight flying suit and sits behind the co-pilot.
EotB- how quickly you forget your roots! Not long til you regress to the 1970s again and the sidestick will be but a distant memory....
There is an ECAM- he's usually wearing a slightly-too-tight flying suit and sits behind the co-pilot.
EotB- how quickly you forget your roots! Not long til you regress to the 1970s again and the sidestick will be but a distant memory....
MEL - Minimum Equipment List. A requirement for all modern public transport aircraft, it lays down what may be unserviceable before flight and the corresponding limitation. Crews must adhere to the MEL The VC10 pre-dated this requirement; it does not have a 'go / no go' list either, it has a list of recommendations in the Topic 2R1 (or whatever it's called now) which are for aircrew guidance only and not for the groundcrew to think of as a 'no go' reference document.
ELRAT - Electrical Ram Air Turbine. Certain electrical failures require this to be lowered; it provides emergency electrical power because, unlike modern aircraft or even the Vulcan, the VC10 auxiliary power unit cannot be used in flight. It powers a limited number of powered flying control units and other systems. Way back it was also planned to fit a HYDRAT to provide emergency hydraulic power, but this was not fitted to production aircraft.
ECAM - Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitor system. As fitted to all Airbus aircraft, but emphatically NOT the VC10! Any system caution or warning will cause an appropriate chime, description of failure and action to be taken. Boeing have something similar, termed Engine Instrumentation and Crew Alerting System (EICAS). The ancient VC10 has a food-powered systems monitoring system (termed the air engineer), plus various bells, klaxons, lights and gauges scattered around the flight deck.
ELRAT - Electrical Ram Air Turbine. Certain electrical failures require this to be lowered; it provides emergency electrical power because, unlike modern aircraft or even the Vulcan, the VC10 auxiliary power unit cannot be used in flight. It powers a limited number of powered flying control units and other systems. Way back it was also planned to fit a HYDRAT to provide emergency hydraulic power, but this was not fitted to production aircraft.
ECAM - Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitor system. As fitted to all Airbus aircraft, but emphatically NOT the VC10! Any system caution or warning will cause an appropriate chime, description of failure and action to be taken. Boeing have something similar, termed Engine Instrumentation and Crew Alerting System (EICAS). The ancient VC10 has a food-powered systems monitoring system (termed the air engineer), plus various bells, klaxons, lights and gauges scattered around the flight deck.
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Thank you BEagle. It reminds me of a conversation I had last week with the Orange e-mail help-line. En passant, I asked this nice young lady in Mumbai what SMTP meant, as I had once known and then forgotten. 'It's how you send your e-mails.' 'Yes, but what do the letters mean?' 'You know when you send your e-mails? Well, that's what does it.' 'I KNOW, BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????' Etc, etc...............
Red On, Green On
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Zoom - no doubt you Googled and got to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_...nsfer_Protocol
Massive thread creap, but I love it when TLAs have entirely different meanings in another industry. PR to a media luvvie means public relations, but to a medic it means per rectum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_...nsfer_Protocol
Massive thread creap, but I love it when TLAs have entirely different meanings in another industry. PR to a media luvvie means public relations, but to a medic it means per rectum
I remember dropping the ELRAT (spanish mouse) at circuit height as part of the airtest schedule so that the leckie could adjust the voltage regulator, (panel PA if I remember correctly, sad b'stard that I am). Watching it take over the previously switched off "haystack". I was never convinced of its safety at altitude as the frequency was affected by any slight change in IAS/TAS at this low level, so what it would be like when the TAS was higher? In fact the story of the BOAC FE who was balancing fuel, one tank to four engines, (big wallet no guarantee of big brain) and left the flight deck to chat to a trolley dolly, ELRAT had to be dropped, engines restarted aircraft climbed back up to altitude. The crew was unable to hide their misfortune as the ELRAT had disintegrated!
However, I do remeber that when there was a problem with the ELRAT voltage regualtors a few years ago, they were limmed "For Emergency Use Only".
Was I missing something?
Was I missing something?
I think that was after the one which caught fire on me in 141, Dan, during a supplementary air test. The aircraft had been 'stored' at RAF St. Athan and the ELRAT's voltage regulator had become corroded - hardly surprising, given the environment. The original air test had to be cut short because yet another voltage regulator had died on us during the shut down and relight section, giving that well-known VC10K loss of 1 & 3 busbars and no flight instuments. Until we got the engine going again, that is. Never seen so many MIs cross-line, pretty lights and warning flags!!
The ELRATs were then lim'd as you said - but only until they were re-inspected and a fleet-wide ELRAT-dropping session had been completed.
The ELRATs were then lim'd as you said - but only until they were re-inspected and a fleet-wide ELRAT-dropping session had been completed.
