Joint Officer Training College
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Joint Officer Training College
With the ever decreasing manpower and LEAN VSAs, surely we are now at a stage where there is a requirement for the above? One centralized college for all the basics, followed by federated trg for the specifics? Imagine how much money could be saved........
LEAN: More for less
VSA: Value Stream analysis (Common Sense)
LEAN: More for less
VSA: Value Stream analysis (Common Sense)
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The training regimes are quite different in terms of content beyond militarisation. Surely it would amount to an expensive 'joint introductory phase'? The needs of all three services would be hard for one site to fulfill. I've got a sinking feeling that I'm going to be corrected.
From a naval perspective, you could merge Cranwell and BRNC relatively easily in terms of accommodation. Put both groups on site for first term - core training, mix where applicable for joint leadership exercises and so on, but split for service specific training.
In the RN IST makes up most of the 2nd term anyway, so you could shift the new entrants to Portsmouth and base out of Whale Island for 4 weeks "sea sense" training, prior to embarking on a ship. Yes you'd lose the advantages of the River Dart, but it could be argued that BRNC is a very expensive place to run on, with early 20th century infrastructure needing to be maintained. Presukably the RAF could go off and do specialised training at the airfields / bases that could provide it?
I'd argue that the Army should retain Sandhurst as its numbers and requirements are on a different scale to the other services.
The question would be, what site would do? Shrivenham - make it into a crade/grave learning & training depot for officers?
In the RN IST makes up most of the 2nd term anyway, so you could shift the new entrants to Portsmouth and base out of Whale Island for 4 weeks "sea sense" training, prior to embarking on a ship. Yes you'd lose the advantages of the River Dart, but it could be argued that BRNC is a very expensive place to run on, with early 20th century infrastructure needing to be maintained. Presukably the RAF could go off and do specialised training at the airfields / bases that could provide it?
I'd argue that the Army should retain Sandhurst as its numbers and requirements are on a different scale to the other services.
The question would be, what site would do? Shrivenham - make it into a crade/grave learning & training depot for officers?
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I might regret these words over time but here goes.
When the DTR Team did its study (late 90s), it did indeed look at the possibility of amalgamating ALL initial training (not just officers) but decided, agreed with the advice offered and declared that initial training needed to be done as 3 independent Services to allow both individual Service identity and an understanding of the doctrine and practice of each to be inculcated at first contact with the Service joined. They did insist that an element of jointery be introduced on each course, however.
If we amalgamate at the BRNC/RMAS/RAFC stage, then we might as well wear one uniform and try the 'Canadian Model', which of course failed!
Foldy
When the DTR Team did its study (late 90s), it did indeed look at the possibility of amalgamating ALL initial training (not just officers) but decided, agreed with the advice offered and declared that initial training needed to be done as 3 independent Services to allow both individual Service identity and an understanding of the doctrine and practice of each to be inculcated at first contact with the Service joined. They did insist that an element of jointery be introduced on each course, however.
If we amalgamate at the BRNC/RMAS/RAFC stage, then we might as well wear one uniform and try the 'Canadian Model', which of course failed!
Foldy
Jimlad not been reading Navy News?
Dartmouth Looks To a New Century
Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth, which celebrated its 100th birthday in 2005, is no longer ‘just’ the place where budding naval officers learn the fundamentals of being an officer in the Senior Service.
The college wants to be regarded as the school of naval leadership, not just for rookie officers, but for all who command or lead sailors in the RN.
“The idea is that everyone from a killick to a commander will remember Dartmouth as the alma mater of leadership,” explained Lt Cdr Richard Harris, training executive officer.
Sailors from HM Ships Cumberland and Argyll have all ‘bonded’ on leadership courses; more will follow. The college has also been actively involved with front-line training, assisting the Flag Officer Sea Training.
It does seem logical for all RN leadership to take place at one location.
Dartmouth Looks To a New Century
Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth, which celebrated its 100th birthday in 2005, is no longer ‘just’ the place where budding naval officers learn the fundamentals of being an officer in the Senior Service.
The college wants to be regarded as the school of naval leadership, not just for rookie officers, but for all who command or lead sailors in the RN.
“The idea is that everyone from a killick to a commander will remember Dartmouth as the alma mater of leadership,” explained Lt Cdr Richard Harris, training executive officer.
Sailors from HM Ships Cumberland and Argyll have all ‘bonded’ on leadership courses; more will follow. The college has also been actively involved with front-line training, assisting the Flag Officer Sea Training.
It does seem logical for all RN leadership to take place at one location.
Dartmouth is just trying to up it's profile to justify it's existence.
The topic of combining officer training is not new, at least for those of us who have been around for a while. The last time it came up, with the prospect of combining all three at one of the current sites, the responses from the serivces were (I believe - but I stand ready to be corrected):
RN - we can be anywhere as long as we are next to the sea (so putting Sandhurst and Cranwell out of the frame)
Army - we can be anywhere as long as we have acres of land around us to go around firing guns in.
RAF - we can be anywhere with a runway at least 6000ft long! (utter hogwash)
Both the RN/RAF replies were, in my opinion, designed to ensure the alternative sites were not suitable, so the matter was dropped!
The topic of combining officer training is not new, at least for those of us who have been around for a while. The last time it came up, with the prospect of combining all three at one of the current sites, the responses from the serivces were (I believe - but I stand ready to be corrected):
RN - we can be anywhere as long as we are next to the sea (so putting Sandhurst and Cranwell out of the frame)
Army - we can be anywhere as long as we have acres of land around us to go around firing guns in.
RAF - we can be anywhere with a runway at least 6000ft long! (utter hogwash)
Both the RN/RAF replies were, in my opinion, designed to ensure the alternative sites were not suitable, so the matter was dropped!
THere is a strong 'jointery' argument to be made, and I believe many other nations get by with a single training college for basic training (possibly including ADF?).
Why not have a single officer training phase at Sandhurst, buy some new accommodation, then send the RAF to an airfield to learn to fly in 2nd term and Navy to Portsmouth and put them on HMS Bristol for 4 months?
Why not have a single officer training phase at Sandhurst, buy some new accommodation, then send the RAF to an airfield to learn to fly in 2nd term and Navy to Portsmouth and put them on HMS Bristol for 4 months?
Snapper
Think you're being a bit harsh ... for example ...
- PJHQ stands up at Northwood (or HMS Warrior (HQ FLEET?) as was) not Wilton or High Wycombe ...
- Joint Services Staff College goes to Bracknall (RAF) initially until Watchfield/Shrivenham finished not Camberly or (sadly) Greenwich
- JFH goes to Cottesmore not Yeovilton ...
- Jt NBC Regt goes to Honington (I think) ...
Granted JHC goes to Wilton but the army doesn't always get its own way, certainly on location. But as the biggest service in pure numbers terms it may be right they get a slightly bigger vote!
Back on thread I don't see the three single service basic officer trg being merged, if for no other reason than on ethos grounds (in the same way the army will never lose/merge some of their key regiments). Furthermore Sandhurst (and I believe Dartmouth) conduct a lot of their professional trg as part of their basic trg whereas, as far as I can tell/remember, Cranwell offers little more than basic grounding in service knowledge.
Similarly, the output required from airmen/soldier/rating basic training is poles apart so little flex for merging their. Merging the recruiting offices was about as close as we will get!
Think you're being a bit harsh ... for example ...
- PJHQ stands up at Northwood (or HMS Warrior (HQ FLEET?) as was) not Wilton or High Wycombe ...
- Joint Services Staff College goes to Bracknall (RAF) initially until Watchfield/Shrivenham finished not Camberly or (sadly) Greenwich
- JFH goes to Cottesmore not Yeovilton ...
- Jt NBC Regt goes to Honington (I think) ...
Granted JHC goes to Wilton but the army doesn't always get its own way, certainly on location. But as the biggest service in pure numbers terms it may be right they get a slightly bigger vote!
Back on thread I don't see the three single service basic officer trg being merged, if for no other reason than on ethos grounds (in the same way the army will never lose/merge some of their key regiments). Furthermore Sandhurst (and I believe Dartmouth) conduct a lot of their professional trg as part of their basic trg whereas, as far as I can tell/remember, Cranwell offers little more than basic grounding in service knowledge.
Similarly, the output required from airmen/soldier/rating basic training is poles apart so little flex for merging their. Merging the recruiting offices was about as close as we will get!
I agree with the comment that the RAF and Navy would lose out if we tried to go joint. BRNC is excellent for the RN. The DArt is used extensively for a whole host of leadership exercises and Dartmoor is a short 40 tonner ride away. Enough of this mutinous talk! Cranwell used to be an RNAS anyway!
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As much as merging officer training could save the MOD a bit of much needed cash, surely there is another way.
If all the regiments of the army were to merge then the shear numbers would justify the savings - For starters, having a common uniform would save as much money as eliminating a training establishment. However the impact to tradition may make it politcally unpalitable to our lords and masters.
Dont have the spell checker installed, so dont moan about the speellinf.
If all the regiments of the army were to merge then the shear numbers would justify the savings - For starters, having a common uniform would save as much money as eliminating a training establishment. However the impact to tradition may make it politcally unpalitable to our lords and masters.
Dont have the spell checker installed, so dont moan about the speellinf.
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There are many other joint reductions possible that would give far greater returns. The logistics works is working towards a single set of IT systems and, where practicable, a single set of business processes. This reduces costs in training, maintenance and support far more than a single College would.
dirty_bugger - blaming your poor computer skills for what was a lack of attention at school is not going to hold water around here.
dirty_bugger - blaming your poor computer skills for what was a lack of attention at school is not going to hold water around here.
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Hinecap,
Thank you for your constructive comment on my lack of computer skills, which I can see no purpose to - are you bored, or do you think that an internet forum is the place to discuss the Queens English. Do you type with two fingers while fixated on the keyboard with a weather eye on the dictionary?
By the way if you check my mail, then the only thing you picked up was my spelling of spelling - which was supposed to be joke. You really should get out more.
You, sir, are a GIMP.
Thank you for your constructive comment on my lack of computer skills, which I can see no purpose to - are you bored, or do you think that an internet forum is the place to discuss the Queens English. Do you type with two fingers while fixated on the keyboard with a weather eye on the dictionary?
By the way if you check my mail, then the only thing you picked up was my spelling of spelling - which was supposed to be joke. You really should get out more.
You, sir, are a GIMP.
