Dual Citizenship....and dying for your country??

[sagy34]

SZTOGGY,

you take the money, you do the job.

If you have doubts about your ability to do the job, then get out.

You can't have it both ways.

[GreenKnight121]

Dr Johnson's statement

The statement cited by prOOne comes from the following work:
The Life of Samuel Johnson (1791) by James Boswell
Boswell's full mention of this statement reads:
Patriotism having become one of our topicks, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.

The event was specifically a fairly heated discussion of Edmund Burke, his colleagues, and their tactics; of all of which Johnson disapproved. Much reference is made to the "rabble-rousing" tendencies of the men in question, who would appeal to patriotic sensibilities in a last-ditch effort to salvage otherwise defeated causes.


Dr Samuel Johnson's full beliefs on Patriotism can be found in his statement as follows:
The Patriot (1774)

ADDRESSED TO THE ELECTORS OF GREAT BRITAIN.
[excerpts from the text] Full text: The Patriot

• It ought to be deeply impressed on the minds of all who have voices in this national deliberation, that no man can deserve a seat in parliament, who is not a patriot. No other man will protect our rights: no other man can merit our confidence.
  A patriot is he whose publick conduct is regulated by one single motive, the love of his country; who, as an agent in parliament, has, for himself, neither hope nor fear, neither kindness nor resentment, but refers every thing to the common interest.

• Let us take a patriot, where we can meet him; and, that we may not flatter ourselves by false appearances, distinguish those marks which are certain, from those which may deceive; for a man may have the external appearance of a patriot, without the constituent qualities; as false coins have often lustre, though they want weight.

• Some claim a place in the list of patriots, by an acrimonious and unremitting opposition to the court. This mark is by no means infallible. Patriotism is not necessarily included in rebellion. A man may hate his king, yet not love his country.

• The greater, far the greater number of those who rave and rail, and inquire and accuse, neither suspect nor fear, nor care for the publick; but hope to force their way to riches, by virulence and invective, and are vehement and clamorous, only that they may be sooner hired to be silent.

• A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation. This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion. The fallaciousness of this note of patriotism is particularly apparent, when the clamour continues after the evil is past.
• He that wishes to see his country robbed of its rights cannot be a patriot.

It is appropriate here to insert another quote from Dr Johnson:
"It is more from carelessness about truth than from intentional lying, that there is so much falsehood in the world." The Life of Samuel Johnson (1791) by James Boswell March 31, 1778, p. 372

[N Arslow]

I hope to become a citizen of a second country in the very near future. That was my choice (and obviously the choice of the government of that country if they accept my application).
I see no confliction now or in the future. I have served in my country of origin's armed forces and have considered my new country's (but decided against for domestic reasons). If there were ever to be a conflict of obligation I would make another choice.
I feel I was given a brain to make those choices when necessary.
The brain also allows me to see the strengths and weaknesses both have to offer. I will never feel compelled to be led by blind patriotism in either case nor to believe that I have to agree with everything one government decides to do or not. Obviously I have chosen to live in democracies where that is a right.
What is the problem?

[L J R]

.....and where do those who are employed by the Brits under BWoS in the Deserts of King Saud, with Oz, NZ, Canuk etc passports fit in with this situation. They do not actually 'fight' for the current Prince, but those whom they train may.

[Wiley]

LJR, I think most of us in that siuation quite happily (if somewhat flippantly) refer to ourselves as mercanaries, (although I accept that this might upset real mercenaries, as we don't actually fight to earn our keep).

I also think your point has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, as there is no question of such contract workers taking up citizenship of the countries they work in.

[Sztoggy]

Originally Posted by sagy34

SZTOGGY,

you take the money, you do the job.

If you have doubts about your ability to do the job, then get out.

You can't have it both ways.

i'm not doing it for the money, but for my country, according to my convictions. How can you do the job if you're not patriot ? And then, if you're patriot for your country, you should be patriot for two in case you have a dual citizenship as I do. And my patriotism will never push me to act again my second country. Sorry if you can get it, and as I said, you still can try to call may president to advise him of my presence in his army.