Why do people leave the RAF early?
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Why stay in?
1. Some people can survive the rubbish and love what they do.
2. They are too near a good pension to quit early.
3. They couldn't survive in the harsh World outside.
4. Some other reasons, discuss.
2. They are too near a good pension to quit early.
3. They couldn't survive in the harsh World outside.
4. Some other reasons, discuss.
1. Brat breeders' boarding school allowance, or whatever it's called now - they couldn't afford to leave.
2. Being in an aircrew trade which has little or no commercial attraction - no outside jobs.
3. Being someone who has shafted JOs in the past in his quest for stars, now thinks about PVRing. Suddenly discovering that the ex-RAF mates airline jungle drums have black-spotted him for ever, so has to stay in as there is a "If you ever get an application from this d*ckhead, throw it away" memo in most airline recruiters' offices about him.....
2. Being in an aircrew trade which has little or no commercial attraction - no outside jobs.
3. Being someone who has shafted JOs in the past in his quest for stars, now thinks about PVRing. Suddenly discovering that the ex-RAF mates airline jungle drums have black-spotted him for ever, so has to stay in as there is a "If you ever get an application from this d*ckhead, throw it away" memo in most airline recruiters' offices about him.....
I'm sorry to have to add this. I am an outsider who made a conscious decision not to join the RAF sometime ago despite years in my school CCF and a Flying Scholarship. I think the men and women of the Royal Air Force are the best of the best, but the world has changed, The idea of pre-planning a 9/13/18/22 year career is ludicrous. If you are not happy, vote with your feet. Change jobs and change careers completely. Nothing is permanent. Learn to adapt and stop complaining. You will soon learn in the outside world that your current abilities are most important.
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kms - if you have never experienced the commitment, loyalty and mutual respect that comes with serving amongst 'the best' then that is your loss and I, for one, do not envy you one bit. If you have no regrets – why are you hanging on the words of these threads?
I would not change my past. To succeed in a difficult job, with little and sometimes no margin for error, to go into harm’s way surrounded by determined and courageous people, to lead these people is rewarding beyond description.
This is what lights our fire – this is why people stay. But demobcurious put’s it very well - it must be balanced. Currently it is not and that is why we see such committed people leaving.
Bufe - which air force?
I would not change my past. To succeed in a difficult job, with little and sometimes no margin for error, to go into harm’s way surrounded by determined and courageous people, to lead these people is rewarding beyond description.
This is what lights our fire – this is why people stay. But demobcurious put’s it very well - it must be balanced. Currently it is not and that is why we see such committed people leaving.
Bufe - which air force?
The people I have worked with over the last 20 years are as technically able, committed, tough and passionate as anyone. I have lost a few good friends over the years, and I trust my crew with my life. I have to. We have no guarantees, no pension schemes, but my crew are as good as it gets. And we all know when we have done a good job.
Don't talk down to me. I pay your wages.
Don't talk down to me. I pay your wages.
Captain Kirk
I concur!
A trawl through kms901s posts would highlight the following quotes (and all within the last 12 mths or so!):
"I got my PPL about a year ago (To be more accurate I was up to 200 hours over a decade ago, but practical considerations got in the way and I had to start again.)"
"As a humble PPL of 20 years experience with 1100 hours (1500 t/offs and landings)"
"I am only an amateur pilot"
"I am a PPL based in Italy"
"I am now living in Italy"
Now being a mere humble military aviator I leave you to draw your own conclusions, but IMHO, if he lives in Italy and works out of Italy he may not even pay our wages. The ItAF perhaps ...
Furthermore - "lost a few good friends over the years", "trust my life with my crew, I have to", "no pension scheme". Sounds like a mercenary to me! Perhaps he doesn't pay tax at all? Flies Ryan Air a lot mind and seems to be highly critical of their flight deck crew abilities. Maybe he pays their wages as well?
kms901 - I don't give two hoots whether you think that paying a miniscule amount of my, or any other Crown employee wages gives you the right to be treated differently or not talked down to. Military Aircrew forum for military aircrew and their backroom support team. You are neither, so with all due respect, stay in the PPL forum theres a good chap.
I concur!
A trawl through kms901s posts would highlight the following quotes (and all within the last 12 mths or so!):
"I got my PPL about a year ago (To be more accurate I was up to 200 hours over a decade ago, but practical considerations got in the way and I had to start again.)"
"As a humble PPL of 20 years experience with 1100 hours (1500 t/offs and landings)"
"I am only an amateur pilot"
"I am a PPL based in Italy"
"I am now living in Italy"
Now being a mere humble military aviator I leave you to draw your own conclusions, but IMHO, if he lives in Italy and works out of Italy he may not even pay our wages. The ItAF perhaps ...
Furthermore - "lost a few good friends over the years", "trust my life with my crew, I have to", "no pension scheme". Sounds like a mercenary to me! Perhaps he doesn't pay tax at all? Flies Ryan Air a lot mind and seems to be highly critical of their flight deck crew abilities. Maybe he pays their wages as well?
kms901 - I don't give two hoots whether you think that paying a miniscule amount of my, or any other Crown employee wages gives you the right to be treated differently or not talked down to. Military Aircrew forum for military aircrew and their backroom support team. You are neither, so with all due respect, stay in the PPL forum theres a good chap.
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kms901,
"Don't talk down to me, I pay your wages"
Have you been there waiting for the last one to return from a mission over hostile country?
Have you sat there waiting for departure time wondering if its your name that will be rubbed off the board later that night?
Do you operate (lights out) at 50 ft at night to put your bombs on the target?
Do you realise the frustration that arises when the time for your phone call home coincides with an "alert" and you miss out yet again?
You come and do this job and WE will pay your wages!!!
"Don't talk down to me, I pay your wages"
Have you been there waiting for the last one to return from a mission over hostile country?
Have you sat there waiting for departure time wondering if its your name that will be rubbed off the board later that night?
Do you operate (lights out) at 50 ft at night to put your bombs on the target?
Do you realise the frustration that arises when the time for your phone call home coincides with an "alert" and you miss out yet again?
You come and do this job and WE will pay your wages!!!
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...and relax!
kms - no offence intended. You may however wish to consider that phrases like ‘Learn to adapt and stop complaining. You will soon learn…’ might be regarded as somewhat condescending.
Now, returning to the point…
kms - no offence intended. You may however wish to consider that phrases like ‘Learn to adapt and stop complaining. You will soon learn…’ might be regarded as somewhat condescending.
Now, returning to the point…
Ok, folks, calm down.
I think the men and women of the RAF are the best. Full stop. No caveats. I live in Italy, but pay taxes in the UK. Apart from the first 30 hours (oh, and the gliding bit), I have paid for all my flying over the past 30 years. I wouldn't have it any other way. I guess I am not the kind of person who wants to be told where and when they are going to fly, which is why I wold not do it for a living.
But there are other walks of life with inherent dangers,and less backup. It's just that we all have choices. however much it hurts, you may have to vote with your feet in the end.
Dont be irreplaceable. If you are, it is very hard to get promoted.
I think the men and women of the RAF are the best. Full stop. No caveats. I live in Italy, but pay taxes in the UK. Apart from the first 30 hours (oh, and the gliding bit), I have paid for all my flying over the past 30 years. I wouldn't have it any other way. I guess I am not the kind of person who wants to be told where and when they are going to fly, which is why I wold not do it for a living.
But there are other walks of life with inherent dangers,and less backup. It's just that we all have choices. however much it hurts, you may have to vote with your feet in the end.
Dont be irreplaceable. If you are, it is very hard to get promoted.
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Then again, you probably weren't good enough to get in?
That last comment by the way is utter nonsense. No one, but no one in any armed service is irreplaceable. The concept is quite illogical! If you think you are, shove your arm into a bucket of water and measure the hole it leaves when you pull it out.
That last comment by the way is utter nonsense. No one, but no one in any armed service is irreplaceable. The concept is quite illogical! If you think you are, shove your arm into a bucket of water and measure the hole it leaves when you pull it out.
Last edited by Samuel; 29th Jul 2006 at 05:49.
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Originally Posted by vecvechookattack
Goo point....whe people leave BA....do they mank and moan for weeks and weeks? do they post messages on the PPrune BA site....or do they just walk?
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Originally Posted by BEagle
1. Brat breeders' boarding school allowance, or whatever it's called now - they couldn't afford to leave.
2. Being in an aircrew trade which has little or no commercial attraction - no outside jobs.
3. Being someone who has shafted JOs in the past in his quest for stars, now thinks about PVRing. Suddenly discovering that the ex-RAF mates airline jungle drums have black-spotted him for ever, so has to stay in as there is a "If you ever get an application from this d*ckhead, throw it away" memo in most airline recruiters' offices about him.....
2. Being in an aircrew trade which has little or no commercial attraction - no outside jobs.
3. Being someone who has shafted JOs in the past in his quest for stars, now thinks about PVRing. Suddenly discovering that the ex-RAF mates airline jungle drums have black-spotted him for ever, so has to stay in as there is a "If you ever get an application from this d*ckhead, throw it away" memo in most airline recruiters' offices about him.....
1. No one stays in just because they get BSA.
2. All personnel in the RAF have something to offer the private sector. Just because we aren't all pilots doesn't mean to say we are not employable.
3. Isn't it sad that blackballing is still evident.
Conclusion: You are from an RAF that changed years ago. The fact you still have contacts with the current one is irrelevant. Indeed, I wonder what good you did for the RAF in your day? Oh yes, you left. Thanks for that.
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Originally Posted by kms901
The people I have worked with over the last 20 years are as technically able, committed, tough and passionate as anyone. I have lost a few good friends over the years, and I trust my crew with my life. I have to. We have no guarantees, no pension schemes, but my crew are as good as it gets. And we all know when we have done a good job.
Don't talk down to me. I pay your wages.
Don't talk down to me. I pay your wages.
"Indeed, I wonder what good you did for the RAF in your day?"
Helped a large number of folk to obtain cheap ATPLs, for one thing!
"All personnel in the RAF have something to offer the private sector. Just because we aren't all pilots doesn't mean to say we are not employable"
Of course - and you can always add the chip off your shoulder to all the others you will be serving in MacDonalds.
Helped a large number of folk to obtain cheap ATPLs, for one thing!
"All personnel in the RAF have something to offer the private sector. Just because we aren't all pilots doesn't mean to say we are not employable"
Of course - and you can always add the chip off your shoulder to all the others you will be serving in MacDonalds.
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Originally Posted by BEagle
"Indeed, I wonder what good you did for the RAF in your day?"
Helped a large number of folk to obtain cheap ATPLs, for one thing!
"All personnel in the RAF have something to offer the private sector. Just because we aren't all pilots doesn't mean to say we are not employable"
Of course - and you can always add the chip off your shoulder to all the others you will be serving in MacDonalds.
Helped a large number of folk to obtain cheap ATPLs, for one thing!
"All personnel in the RAF have something to offer the private sector. Just because we aren't all pilots doesn't mean to say we are not employable"
Of course - and you can always add the chip off your shoulder to all the others you will be serving in MacDonalds.
Two winged master race, actually, do get your insults accurate!
The 4-star thought it was a very good recruiting and retention measure - the idea being to retain people a little longer than the RAF was managing at the time.
The 4-star thought it was a very good recruiting and retention measure - the idea being to retain people a little longer than the RAF was managing at the time.
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Just put my 2 pennorth in if I may. I recently signed on as PA. There are many reasons why I am staying in. I love the flying, the people and the whole camaraderie thing. I could get a job outside, I looked at many, but none really floated my boat. Mrs Teatime wasn't that bothered if I stayed or went. She dislikes the time I spend away but that could happen in many jobs. I chose to extend my RAF career and on my head be it. I do get a little tired however of everyone telling me on these forums (well OK not telling me directly) how good it is outside, how stupid I am to stay in or how unemployable I am. I made a choice, mine and it is the right one for me. The grass maybe greener but from where I am it is just a different shade.
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I do remember a time when the RAF was awash with Chief Technician ranks, they therefore offered them the chance to leave etc if desired and it would not I believe effect their pensions etc..............
End result, those Chiefs that were any good and would get a job packed up and left, end result the RAF suffered from being left with the dross that had been promoted up out of the way.........
No doubt nothing has changed....
End result, those Chiefs that were any good and would get a job packed up and left, end result the RAF suffered from being left with the dross that had been promoted up out of the way.........
No doubt nothing has changed....