Jaguar T4
Wannabes
Don't worry Hon,
The people who snipe at the old girl either don't fly or are wannabe Jag pilots who didn't quite make it
I shall miss the "Full hairdryer power" calls though
Good luck T4 - I have a feeling the CAA will ruin the project but there you go.
The people who snipe at the old girl either don't fly or are wannabe Jag pilots who didn't quite make it
I shall miss the "Full hairdryer power" calls though
Good luck T4 - I have a feeling the CAA will ruin the project but there you go.
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Jag pilot
I'd be delighted to fly the jag for you. I have never actually flown a jag, nor do I have any CAA approved qualifications, but I do have over 1hr in the back seat of a Hawk and was once a Cadet Warrant Officer in the ATC.
Would you be willing to put me through all the training required?
If so, we're both sorted!!!
Mr F.
Would you be willing to put me through all the training required?
If so, we're both sorted!!!
Mr F.
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Pick Me!!!
Ignore all the rubbish people are saying about the fastest, operational single seat fast jet in the RAF inventory. In fact the only operational single seat fast jet in the RAF inventory, as anything without supersonic capability simply does not count.
I left the RAF MArch 05, as an A2 Jaguar instructor, with 3 years on the OCU, and 1400 hours total Jaguar (with some Buccaneer and Tornado time aswell in case you are considering buying anything else) so I am painfully familiar with the 2 seat variant. Since I no longer have the privilage of flying the old lady, however, I would be delighted to have the chance to renew my aquaintance through a TBird.
You obviously know who to speak to within the CAA, but you may wish to contact Delta Jets at Kemble, as they already operate various retired fast jet types and, I am led to believe, are also keen to get their hands on a Jag on a civvy ticket; they may be able to help.
Best of luck!
I left the RAF MArch 05, as an A2 Jaguar instructor, with 3 years on the OCU, and 1400 hours total Jaguar (with some Buccaneer and Tornado time aswell in case you are considering buying anything else) so I am painfully familiar with the 2 seat variant. Since I no longer have the privilage of flying the old lady, however, I would be delighted to have the chance to renew my aquaintance through a TBird.
You obviously know who to speak to within the CAA, but you may wish to contact Delta Jets at Kemble, as they already operate various retired fast jet types and, I am led to believe, are also keen to get their hands on a Jag on a civvy ticket; they may be able to help.
Best of luck!
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I will contact them, thanks for that! I will PM you with some more information!
As to the above cadet, sure we will let you fly it........When you have served in the RAF/Navy on fast jests for few years!! You have one up on me anyway, I have never been in a fast jet, but im bloody looking forward to it, if we can get this project flying, so to speak!
As to the above cadet, sure we will let you fly it........When you have served in the RAF/Navy on fast jests for few years!! You have one up on me anyway, I have never been in a fast jet, but im bloody looking forward to it, if we can get this project flying, so to speak!
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Originally Posted by Tim McLelland
...............but when the beloved CAA can't even bring themselves to certify a Shackleton, you have to wonder...
The CAA would not tolerate the Buccs that went to South Africa on the British Register even temporarily. They had to be on the South African civil register before they could even get airborne just to depart UK airspace!
The team that are trying to get a Bucc airborne out of Scampton have had an inordinate battle with the CAA and, despite some rumour to the contrary recently, may not be out of the woods yet!
I recommend that you engage the CAA formally at the very earliest opportunity to avoid delay to your planned 'civvie' launch! To quote Robbie Burns: "The best laid plans o' mice and men gang aft aglay" In other words, they might have said it's OK but until you have final clearance to do so, your Jag could well be grounded (like most Jags on a hot day!!!!!) for a long time!
And that could be the crippler as far as the CAA is concerned: A Jaguar; a hot or warm day; without appropriate airfield crash assistance; and no arresting mechanisms (ie most civvie airfields)!!
Best of luck.
FW
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Deltajets are also looking at Jaguar T4 purchase. Buying it is the easy bit - getting it flying might take the odd miracle, but we are working on it.
Perhaps you would be good enough to contact them - 01285 771494 and get hold of the Chief Pilot.
I am sure we can help each other somehow.
He's a good looking chap and incidentally has 3500 hours on Jags!
Chief Pilot
KMB01
Perhaps you would be good enough to contact them - 01285 771494 and get hold of the Chief Pilot.
I am sure we can help each other somehow.
He's a good looking chap and incidentally has 3500 hours on Jags!
Chief Pilot
KMB01
I'd be delighted to be proved wrong (the T4 is the prettiest FJ in the inventory today), but I was under the impression that a "Mk 8 Canberra" was about as sophisticated as the CAA were prepared to tolerate - hence the problems with Lightning and Buccaneer.
I was led to believe that it's all of the reheat, high pressure hydraulics, AVPIN starters and all the other malarkey of post 1960 fast jets that terrify the CAA rather than the handling aspects - so I guess the question is how 'complicated' is the Jag T4 in a 'systems' sense?
And if you want a PPL-holding press officer with a proven interest in the Jag, and more than a few Jag T2/2A backseat rides under his belt, then look no further.
I was led to believe that it's all of the reheat, high pressure hydraulics, AVPIN starters and all the other malarkey of post 1960 fast jets that terrify the CAA rather than the handling aspects - so I guess the question is how 'complicated' is the Jag T4 in a 'systems' sense?
And if you want a PPL-holding press officer with a proven interest in the Jag, and more than a few Jag T2/2A backseat rides under his belt, then look no further.
GREENGRASS
So you're missing the old girl already?!
Just remember if you get the chance to do any fly-bys, that in a civvy registered aircraft, you must maintain 500 feet clear of person, vessel, vehicle or structures! (I think that's the rule!)
BV
Just remember if you get the chance to do any fly-bys, that in a civvy registered aircraft, you must maintain 500 feet clear of person, vessel, vehicle or structures! (I think that's the rule!)
BV
Didn't OFMC try and get a Phantom FGR.2 on the register when they left service and were told it was too complex? If the Jag flies again do you think they might change their mind about the 'toom? love to see one of those flying again.
(as well as a Jag, perhaps paint it in sandy colours and get sponsership from the Sultan..?)
(as well as a Jag, perhaps paint it in sandy colours and get sponsership from the Sultan..?)
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As I've already said, the CAA have consistently said no to the Buccaneer, Lightning, Phantom (the OFMC one), Shackleton, etc. The guys at Scampton claim they've finally got the CAA's approval for their Buccaneer but who knows? It still hasn't flown, and even if it does (which would be a miracle) it still might not be put in the same category as a Jag which has reheat of course.
Like I asked earlier, what did the CAA actually say? It's all very well saying that they said "they would agree" but I'm assuming (judging by the lack of concrete facts) that they said that they'd agree in principle. Obviously, in civil service-speak this means nothing and ultimately still means "no" once all the provisos and caveats are thrown-up.
I hope the idea is a success, but based on the lessons of history, I think it has virtually no chance of happening.
Like I asked earlier, what did the CAA actually say? It's all very well saying that they said "they would agree" but I'm assuming (judging by the lack of concrete facts) that they said that they'd agree in principle. Obviously, in civil service-speak this means nothing and ultimately still means "no" once all the provisos and caveats are thrown-up.
I hope the idea is a success, but based on the lessons of history, I think it has virtually no chance of happening.
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I spoke with the CAA yesterday.
CAA (so I was told) has received no formal communication / application regarding a permit to fly for a T4 Jag. Not that the CAA wouldn't be adverse to considering such an application, but the plane would probably fall into the complex rather than intermediate category if any permit were to be issued.
However, IMHO, obtaining a permit ab initio for a Jag would not be a trivial or inexpensive matter.
CAA (so I was told) has received no formal communication / application regarding a permit to fly for a T4 Jag. Not that the CAA wouldn't be adverse to considering such an application, but the plane would probably fall into the complex rather than intermediate category if any permit were to be issued.
However, IMHO, obtaining a permit ab initio for a Jag would not be a trivial or inexpensive matter.
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Jaguar T4
Admirable aims, we know from past experience with the Bucc the difficulties you will encounter in gaining a permit. Have a look at the full story for the Bucc on the Air Scene uk website in the archived articles. www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/2006/bucc/bucc.htm
Not sure what the latest "rumours" are re our Buccaneer but I can assure all that the CAA have stated that it will be given a permit on completion of the agreed work.
The Jag will almost certainly be placed in the complex category (reheat and rocket pack seats). It is a long and arduous battle to get even to the stage where we are now so if you need any advice please feel free to pm me.
Not sure what the latest "rumours" are re our Buccaneer but I can assure all that the CAA have stated that it will be given a permit on completion of the agreed work.
The Jag will almost certainly be placed in the complex category (reheat and rocket pack seats). It is a long and arduous battle to get even to the stage where we are now so if you need any advice please feel free to pm me.
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Pretty much as I said/suspected then - the CAA have merely said that they would consider it but of course that's almost the same as saying "no" - it's not gonna happen, nice idea though it may be.
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Jag T4
Tim Mc
Are you a bringer of doom and gloom only. Have you ever had any involvement with a project like this or any dealings with the CAA (who may not be as victorian in their approach as you seem to paint). What information and knowledge qualifies you to say that it would be a miracle for the HHA Bucc to fly again or indeed the Jag which is in the embryo stage of the project. I for one support T4 and his team and will endeavour to help where possible.
Are you a bringer of doom and gloom only. Have you ever had any involvement with a project like this or any dealings with the CAA (who may not be as victorian in their approach as you seem to paint). What information and knowledge qualifies you to say that it would be a miracle for the HHA Bucc to fly again or indeed the Jag which is in the embryo stage of the project. I for one support T4 and his team and will endeavour to help where possible.
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What information and knowledge qualifies you to say that it would be a miracle for the HHA Bucc to fly again or indeed the Jag which is in the embryo stage of the project.
er... how about forty years of watching aviation in the UK?
You telling me that getting the Buccaneer certified won't be a miracle?
It would be even more than a miracle if the Jaguar gets certified too, as I've said previously.
Not a bringer of doom and gloom, just the odd reality check. Perhaps you could explain the the purpose or value of threads that drift off into the realms of fantasy and raise people's hopes? You know as well as I do that the CAA are almost certain to refuse any certification of a Jaguar, so please don't suggest that it's anything but extremely unlikely. Great if it does happen but let's not start getting carried away here?
er... how about forty years of watching aviation in the UK?
You telling me that getting the Buccaneer certified won't be a miracle?
It would be even more than a miracle if the Jaguar gets certified too, as I've said previously.
Not a bringer of doom and gloom, just the odd reality check. Perhaps you could explain the the purpose or value of threads that drift off into the realms of fantasy and raise people's hopes? You know as well as I do that the CAA are almost certain to refuse any certification of a Jaguar, so please don't suggest that it's anything but extremely unlikely. Great if it does happen but let's not start getting carried away here?
Perhaps the lack of blowing, folding wings, and the lack of the Bucc's record of major structural problems might make the CAA view the Jag in a more favourable light than the Bucc. It's also a two-seater with real dual controls, and with seats that are still being supported for other types.
Part Throttle Reheat really shouldn't be such a problem, surely?
Part Throttle Reheat really shouldn't be such a problem, surely?