Protection of young people in the Air Cadets
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Spot on dinoorin. Yep they do spend time alone in the cockpit with a cadet-once they have the qualifications needed and my bet is that certain instructors are getting away with it-with the full knowledge of their superiors. No prizes for guessing which VGS that might be.
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FJJP, in similar position to your friend, however, our DV checks are to ascertain whether we are liable to blackmail etc rather than establishing our suitability to work with youngsters/vulnerable adults. Sadly the two are not necessarily compatible. G
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Firstly, I would like to apologise to all concerned in the ACO and VGS organisation for replying to this thread and returning it to the top (not for too long I hope).
It frustrates me enormously that yet another other thread is infected with the anti 'guess which VGS' tone. I am outraged that the known anti 'guess which VGS' individuals may anonymously post such statements as "my bet is that certain instructors are getting away with it" on a thread as sensitive as "Protection of young people in the Air Cadets " anonymously and without substantiation. I know this is a rumour forum but yet again they have overstepped the mark and have intimated many other instructors beyond the individual with which they have an axe to grind.
To the perpetrators: If you have something to be investigated then report it through the appropriate channels. If not then - please - hush - for the sake of the organisation you recently belonged to. Time has moved on. That famous VGS has moved on. Can you now also please move on.
Thanks.
V.
It frustrates me enormously that yet another other thread is infected with the anti 'guess which VGS' tone. I am outraged that the known anti 'guess which VGS' individuals may anonymously post such statements as "my bet is that certain instructors are getting away with it" on a thread as sensitive as "Protection of young people in the Air Cadets " anonymously and without substantiation. I know this is a rumour forum but yet again they have overstepped the mark and have intimated many other instructors beyond the individual with which they have an axe to grind.
To the perpetrators: If you have something to be investigated then report it through the appropriate channels. If not then - please - hush - for the sake of the organisation you recently belonged to. Time has moved on. That famous VGS has moved on. Can you now also please move on.
Thanks.
V.
Last edited by vigilantee; 20th Jun 2006 at 23:41.
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On the subject of CRB's the normal system can take about 10 months to work it's way through the system. The Scottich disclosure system CRB's have been coming back in 3 weeks or so, which is obviously great news for stopping new staff getting disinterested.
I see Frig can't stop himself seeing a thread vaguely related to the VGS world opening his fat mouth and trying to have a go at a perfectly well formed VGS that is now performing very well.
Cheers
Background
I see Frig can't stop himself seeing a thread vaguely related to the VGS world opening his fat mouth and trying to have a go at a perfectly well formed VGS that is now performing very well.
Cheers
Background
Gentleman Aviator
Why does it take so long (the CRB check)? If I get arrested, then the police can find out instantly if I've got a record (well, they do on "The Bill"). So how can it take many months??
And there can be additional rules. On an AEF I know, and I presume all, the following rules apply to the "gents":
1. If a pilot (adult) goes into the gents and there is a cadet in there, he (the adult) must do a quick 180 and leave immediately.
2. If the pilot is already in there and a cadet enters, the adult must also leave immediately.
Both can be difficult tasks for middle-aged men...................
And there can be additional rules. On an AEF I know, and I presume all, the following rules apply to the "gents":
1. If a pilot (adult) goes into the gents and there is a cadet in there, he (the adult) must do a quick 180 and leave immediately.
2. If the pilot is already in there and a cadet enters, the adult must also leave immediately.
Both can be difficult tasks for middle-aged men...................
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Originally Posted by November4
I am CRB checked because 'er indoors is a childminder (everyone over a certain age in the house has to checked).
But that CRB check is not good enough for the ATC and I have to have another one done
Cynic in me wonders if that is anything to do with the double fee that the CRB agency will get for the 2 checks......
But that CRB check is not good enough for the ATC and I have to have another one done
Cynic in me wonders if that is anything to do with the double fee that the CRB agency will get for the 2 checks......
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Originally Posted by Maple 01
The key here, I'm led to believe, is if there is regular, frequent contact, someone popping down once, now and again to do a spot of lecturing doesn’t need a CRB – That’s from Cranwell Seniors course last week
I don't think the bloke in the front of a glider would need one
I don't think the bloke in the front of a glider would need one
Caused a right old stir with one member of the course did that.
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Background; sorry if I upset you but did you have any particular VGS in mind as I was talking in general terms on this one. I'm delighted that your VGS is now performing well -whatever VGS that might be-and assuming that it was cr** before. Before what might I ask ?!
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CRB checks can take a while, and can hold up the application process for new adult staff, or when a CI goes into uniform either as an Adult SNCO or VR(T) Officer.
However, the wording of ATC regulations on the matter does not - if you read between the lines - preclude new applicants (e.g. CIs) from service whilst their CRB/application is pending, it just says that they must not have UNSUPERVISED access to the cadets. For example, very few Civilian Committee members will be CRB'd (I would imagine), but will do welfare jobs such as running the Sqn canteen etc. however, in doing so, they are not given unsupervised access.
If an applicant is happy to work "escorted" until their CRB/official appointment comes back, there is no problem (although this needs to be made clear to them). For example, I have 2 CIs - both brothers, and ex-RAF - on my Sqn. One brother joined before the other, and was cleared by the time his brother joined up. Therefore, they worked together until the other brothers' CRB came through, so that his access to the cadets was not unsupervised. Incidentally, this worked rather well, as he was able to gain some valuable instructional technique training by observing his brother in action...
However, the wording of ATC regulations on the matter does not - if you read between the lines - preclude new applicants (e.g. CIs) from service whilst their CRB/application is pending, it just says that they must not have UNSUPERVISED access to the cadets. For example, very few Civilian Committee members will be CRB'd (I would imagine), but will do welfare jobs such as running the Sqn canteen etc. however, in doing so, they are not given unsupervised access.
If an applicant is happy to work "escorted" until their CRB/official appointment comes back, there is no problem (although this needs to be made clear to them). For example, I have 2 CIs - both brothers, and ex-RAF - on my Sqn. One brother joined before the other, and was cleared by the time his brother joined up. Therefore, they worked together until the other brothers' CRB came through, so that his access to the cadets was not unsupervised. Incidentally, this worked rather well, as he was able to gain some valuable instructional technique training by observing his brother in action...
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Apologies for the Jet Blast tone of this, but as someone who knows very little of the VGS activities, there is a definite underlying insinuation in just about every thread that has popped up in the last 6 months or so about the conduct or professionalism of that organization. With absolutely no axe to grind on this, it is not difficult to think that there is either some organizational issue that keeps reoccurring and is worthy of examination, or there is a coordinated attempt to besmirch the VGS. Don't mistake me for someone who cares, but a quick audit of the threads and subjects is very illuminating for anyone who does.
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If you want to work in the RAFM you have to pass something called a police check. This is because you may be working with young people and collection materials.
It took about two weeks for mine to come through - does anyone know what the difference is compared to the CRB check described above?
N.
It took about two weeks for mine to come through - does anyone know what the difference is compared to the CRB check described above?
N.
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Noisy,
There are varyious levels of checks which can be carried out and the length of time taken can vary a lot. A standard police check takes next to no time at all, whilst an enhanced crb check can take much longer.
I keep myself very busy as a volunteer on a cadet squadron and also a vgs and although I already had an enhanced check through the vgs, when I joined the cadet squadron another was required. I also have an enhanced check for my part time job working as a taxi driver, and all of these checks are required to be renewed periodically and independantly. This is because a check is specific to a job/company and is printed on the disclosure. (Just glad I don't need one for the day job too!)
I would personally much prefer these thorough checks (even if they take a while) than for people to "slip through the net". And as has already been stated with new staff there is nothing to stop them instructing or joining in so long as they are not left alone/unsupervised with cadets.
Two's in,
To answer your question, I've visited a number of vgs's as a relief instructor over the last few years and experienced very few problems. My own experience as a cadet and as adult staff has been a very good one and I have yet to meet a cadet who hasn't gained from the ACO as a whole. I can't comment on the experiences that have been raised by a couple of posters on here, but can tell you that I have personally never encountered anything similar myself.
Safe flying to all.
Chinchilla.
There are varyious levels of checks which can be carried out and the length of time taken can vary a lot. A standard police check takes next to no time at all, whilst an enhanced crb check can take much longer.
I keep myself very busy as a volunteer on a cadet squadron and also a vgs and although I already had an enhanced check through the vgs, when I joined the cadet squadron another was required. I also have an enhanced check for my part time job working as a taxi driver, and all of these checks are required to be renewed periodically and independantly. This is because a check is specific to a job/company and is printed on the disclosure. (Just glad I don't need one for the day job too!)
I would personally much prefer these thorough checks (even if they take a while) than for people to "slip through the net". And as has already been stated with new staff there is nothing to stop them instructing or joining in so long as they are not left alone/unsupervised with cadets.
Two's in,
To answer your question, I've visited a number of vgs's as a relief instructor over the last few years and experienced very few problems. My own experience as a cadet and as adult staff has been a very good one and I have yet to meet a cadet who hasn't gained from the ACO as a whole. I can't comment on the experiences that have been raised by a couple of posters on here, but can tell you that I have personally never encountered anything similar myself.
Safe flying to all.
Chinchilla.
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Very true Phoenix, but you have to start somewhere........even if it's just to exclude the people who HAVE already been caught and are therefore a known risk?!? 
Cunning Artificer
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When I was in the ATC it was the RAF that needed protection from US! I was only 14 but there was certainly no way any of our squadron were gullible enough to fall victim to an 'adult' pervert. "Nannying" has become the nation's biggest industry. One wonders how far the nanny state will go before the lower band tax rate inevitably reaches 100%. 
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The whole situation with the need for CRB Clearances has been blown out of all proportions over the years. As has already been made clear on this thread, the CRB only stops those who have already offended!
If the appropriete authorities (this includes the dear Government) looked at the facts, it shows very clearly that the MAJORITY of child abuse cases are within the family, NOT a mere volunteer who devotes a considerable amount of free time and effort to help and progress young people!
When people actually realise and except this we might do away with such crap as CRB checks ... but then one could argue its job protectionism - not only for the Civil Servants but the Lawyers etc.
When someone gets upset or they get a bee under their bonnet, its human nature that they blow anything out of proportions in a very sad immature way 
. For an organisation that is continually standardised, these vicious rumours are clearly personal crudges of some sort in an attempt to satisfy perhaps the fact they are no longer part of a very good flying training system. Each thread that is raised, the same response is given back - if you think there is a problem go to the appropriete authorities - the fact they don't speaks for itself, they are 
and have no substance!
If the appropriete authorities (this includes the dear Government) looked at the facts, it shows very clearly that the MAJORITY of child abuse cases are within the family, NOT a mere volunteer who devotes a considerable amount of free time and effort to help and progress young people!
When people actually realise and except this we might do away with such crap as CRB checks ... but then one could argue its job protectionism - not only for the Civil Servants but the Lawyers etc.
VGS activities, there is a definite underlying insinuation in just about every thread that has popped up in the last 6 months or so about the conduct or professionalism of that organization.
. For an organisation that is continually standardised, these vicious rumours are clearly personal crudges of some sort in an attempt to satisfy perhaps the fact they are no longer part of a very good flying training system. Each thread that is raised, the same response is given back - if you think there is a problem go to the appropriete authorities - the fact they don't speaks for itself, they are and have no substance!
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Originally Posted by NightFlit
The whole situation with the need for CRB Clearances has been blown out of all proportions over the years. As has already been made clear on this thread, the CRB only stops those who have already offended!
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..quite! Which makes the CRB process even more obsurd!
From what I remember from the research done some years ago (I think within social services), it was about 25% of children are open to some form of abuse from within the family. While a lot of people disregard it, because the stats are so high, it is sadly true fact.
From what I remember from the research done some years ago (I think within social services), it was about 25% of children are open to some form of abuse from within the family. While a lot of people disregard it, because the stats are so high, it is sadly true fact.