DOMINIE OFF RUNWAY AT CARDIFF

[BigGrecian]

It's a well known fact that all Nav's are failed pilots

Not any more - only one shot at aircrew nowadays. So don't screw it up!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

What I meant was that during their application process they "failed", normally due to fitness/co ordination issues or the like, after all you can't expect anyone to belive people ACTUALLY apply to be Nav's

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[threepointonefour]

Originally Posted by Always_broken_in_wilts

after all you can't expect anyone to belive people ACTUALLY apply to be Nav's

Ditto for the Wiltshire Hosties.

[possel]

Originally Posted by BEagle

Rot.

The regulations do not make any distinction regarding the use of the aeroplane. Even an empty 125 must carry a 2 pilot crew.

When I worked on Dominies (long time ago), the second crew member was called the pilot's assistant. The only essential reason for his presence was to operate something which the captain could not reach from his seat - I think it was part of the pressurization system. You hardly have to be an expensively trained pilot to do that!

In general the PA was instructors from the Nav and Air Eng school - once I remember OC Air Nav School closing the right hand throttle instead of selecting full flap on final...

[airborne_artist]

Every other 125 in the European JAA world is required to have a 2 pilot crew

What makes the Dominie so different? Are there any other twin turbojet transport type aircraft flying with only one pilot?

But you can't generally pick and choose the rules you choose to obey and the ones you won't. To operate it under JAA should captain and co should have JAA licences? Should the aircraft be maintained in accordance with the regime? It might not stop there, even.

[Brain Potter]

The Dominie is not operated under JAA regulations. It is a military aircraft operated under a MAR that allows operation by single pilot plus PA. The RAF 125 is regarded as a different type, but is still operated under a MAR (that requires 2 pilots) however it is similarly not subject to JAA regulations and can therefore be fitted with equipment that would preclude civil certification. The MoD can choose to operate to JAA regulations as a 'best practice' model but is responsible for certifying it's own ac under MAR and I don't believe that JAA has any regulatory over-sight of this process. This explains why, for example, some military transport ac do not have EGPWS, even though it has been a required fit by the JAA and it's pre-cursors for many years.

[OCCWMF]

We used to be able to ferry the Puma just as a single pilot, as long as you left the gear down.

Typhoo pilots have to leave the gear down on single pilot ops as well

Could you not be trusted to put them down before landing?

[H Peacock]

Originally Posted by OCCWMF

Typhoo pilots have to leave the gear down on single pilot ops as well

Could you not be trusted to put them down before landing?

The problem with the Puma was that the Emergency Undercarriage lowering hand pump could not be operated from the righthand seat. If flying solo and you did inadvertently put the gear up after takeoff (a bit like trying not to flush a toilet when told not to - you'll probably do it automatically!) you'd have a job getting it down again if the normal hydraulics failed.

H Peacock

[GlosMikeP]

Originally Posted by Brain Potter

The Dominie is not operated under JAA regulations. It is a military aircraft operated under a MAR that allows operation by single pilot plus PA. The RAF 125 is regarded as a different type, but is still operated under a MAR (that requires 2 pilots) however it is similarly not subject to JAA regulations and can therefore be fitted with equipment that would preclude civil certification. The MoD can choose to operate to JAA regulations as a 'best practice' model but is responsible for certifying it's own ac under MAR and I don't believe that JAA has any regulatory over-sight of this process. This explains why, for example, some military transport ac do not have EGPWS, even though it has been a required fit by the JAA and it's pre-cursors for many years.

Absolutely right. This is because the military authorities have an airworthiness structure and regime that is held to be the equivalent of that administered by the CAA etc. Hence military aircraft operate under MAR, not (in general) JAA, although as you say, such matters may be taken into consideration and incorporated.