Hercules comes to heart transplant rescue
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I'm confused as to why a C130 had to do this flight. There are a whole host of biz-jet and turboprop companies in the UK able to do this work and a long way cheaper than the air force.
I guess on the night in question they had already called all of the civil lift.
I guess on the night in question they had already called all of the civil lift.
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Hercules comes to heart transplant rescue
Originally Posted by safe single
From the Wiltshire Gazette and Herald:
Mercy flight crew help save life
by Zoe Mills
A HERCULES from RAF Lyneham took part in an eight-hour mission to transport a heart for an emergency transplant on Thursday.
Flight operations at the airbase received a late-night crisis call from London's Great Ormond Street Hospital......
Either way, good job
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'm sure that Great Ormond Street Hospital called ASCOT Ops who then sorted out the Herc. This is what happened with the Tristar into Paris.
IF there was no civil lift that could possibly have got a team of surgeons to BFS and back in that time frame THEN there might be a justification for using the RAF otherwise its a dubious use of resources.
And as for the cost of taking a Tristar to Paris.....
Last edited by Daysleeper; 2nd Jun 2006 at 11:00.
Red On, Green On
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And as for the cost of taking a Tristar to Paris.....
BZN bent a 3* into Paris only a few weeks ago to do exactly the same thing
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Come on guys lighten up! There is nothing better than being involved in this kind of thing. I remember sitting round a pool in Lilongwe when a lady from the Embassy came rushing down asking for the Herc crew. There had been a terrible train crash in Malawi and we were asked to help out. We did try and contact the UK??!! Involved flying into a grass strip near Lake Malawi to pick up the "boys" They sorted the wounded and we evacuated the injured to South Africa. The Lear Jet cleared our way, we had no dip clear and some had no passports. It ranks as the best thing I ever did. Funny thing is HQ thought we had gone to SA on a jolly!
NG
NG
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Who gives a t*ss how much it cost, who took it or why?
People on this forum are always bleating on about how overstreatched the RAF Air transport fleet is.....there are a limited amount of resources to go round, and an even more limited number of transplantable organs...
In the UK we have a co-ordinating body that is supposed to promote organ donation, match up donors with bits and arrange for transportation.
Now the complicated bit.
It costs MONEY to get surgeons to corpses and organs to people, if the Airforce are doing it every day thats fine I have no issues with that, other than the fact that as a taxpayer, it costs over twice as much for the airforce to do the task as it does civil air, thus we can only do HALF the number of operations. (even if you claim its "training")
If its a question of response time, several UK civil operators can get airborne in 40 mins, to keep that capability costs money if the airforce are going to do these jobs then as a civil operator there is little point in keeping the capability so it gets dropped. Now when UK transplant call up there are no civil aircraft avaliable at 40 mins because they are under utilised so they have to go begging back to the RAF for help.... a vicious circle ensues and the Beurocrats in the Airforce start charging 12K an hour for the herc and even fewer transplants get done.
Flying surgical teams around is not a core military capability, no one is going to shoot at you, it does not require any specialist skills, your too expensive and it diverts military resources that should be elsewhere.
As I said elsewhere, if the transplant co-ordintaion people had tried ever civil operator and they were ALL busy then yes a last chance call to the airforce is justified.
On the other hand if Gt Ormond Street are having to call ASCOT directly themselves there is a serious problem at UK Transplant.
And Mark is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. Congrats Mark to you and your crew.
Seconded - I spent many happy hours in the back of an Andover playing bridge with Mark & the other crews; is there ever going to be a 115 Sqn reunion?
Seconded - I spent many happy hours in the back of an Andover playing bridge with Mark & the other crews; is there ever going to be a 115 Sqn reunion?
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper
As I said elsewhere, if the transplant co-ordintaion people had tried ever civil operator and they were ALL busy then yes a last chance call to the airforce is justified.
Originally Posted by Daysleeper
On the other hand if Gt Ormond Street are having to call ASCOT directly themselves there is a serious problem at UK Transplant.
Originally Posted by Daysleeper
Flying surgical teams around is not a core military capability
Always wondered why we had those Aeromed Teams and stretcher fit lying around.Understand where you are coming from, however, it needs to be taken up with UK Transplant.
How do the think the headline 'RAF Refuse Child Life Saving Transplant' would go down with the British Public?
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper
.... a vicious circle ensues and the Beurocrats in the Airforce start charging 12K an hour for the herc and even fewer transplants get done....
As the good Reverend says, if it were me awaiting a spare part, I know what I'd like to happen!!
Most of you skip over the salient point here.
Ask yourself why the medical authorities do not have a standing contract with an EMS provider for Learjet or similar aircraft and associated helicopter EMS operators for a 24/7 service capability.
Ask yourself why the medical authorities do not have a standing contract with an EMS provider for Learjet or similar aircraft and associated helicopter EMS operators for a 24/7 service capability.
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RAF Refuse Child Life Saving Transplant' would go down with the British Public?
I'm sure the airforce PR dept would never refuse, it deflects attention away for a moment from all the unpopular thankless tasks.
And I would have thought your stretchers/aeromed teams are lying around for your own patients, or for getting UK citizens out of places civil air CANT go.
MACA should be used where civil resources cannot, there is nothing here to suggest that the cost to the MOD of at least £15K is justifiable against the cost to the NHS of £5K for a bizjet, ultimately its the same people paying.
(its been a few years since I did charter brokering so those figures will have gone up)
Anyhow my congratulations to those involved in navigating UK airspace, must have been a toughy.
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OK, then. At what point [in GB£] do you draw the line? If it costs more than, say, £5000 do you refuse the task as an excessive cost to the taxpayer? Or shall we make it £7500? Or £10,000?
No? So why don't we just stop all this nonesense about money and just say 'bloody good show'?
If it was my wife or son, I know I would be awfully grateful and sod the cost...
No? So why don't we just stop all this nonesense about money and just say 'bloody good show'?
If it was my wife or son, I know I would be awfully grateful and sod the cost...
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Perhaps a better question might be why something smaller is not available in say a Dash 8 size. A C-130 seems a lot for such a small package, especially when the RAF is one less of that type as of recently. C-17 is there and A400 on the way but what plans are there for sub C-130 lift, something like a C-27 or the aforementioned Dash?
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Whinging Bean-Counters
I believe the critics of this operation have picked the wrong forum to complain about it. (Try an NHS Money-Wasting Forum) While there are some valid points raised, pooh-poohing congratulations of a crew and station that did its job well is unwarranted and misplaced.
There may very well have been other RAF aircraft that might seem better suited for a medevac role, such as a Dominie or a Jetstream. However, Lyneham maintains a standby posture with its aircraft that allow them to get airborne 40 minutes from the call, and they are configured for medevac missions. As for whether or not it is a core military capability, I think you will find that "Aid to the Civil Power" IS a core military capability, and always will be.
As for the aircrew, they do not go looking for congratulations after making flights like this. As one who performs missions such as these from time to time, I go to sleep at night secure in the knowledge that I helped save a life (or at least try to). That's all the congratulations I need.
Fourfans.
There may very well have been other RAF aircraft that might seem better suited for a medevac role, such as a Dominie or a Jetstream. However, Lyneham maintains a standby posture with its aircraft that allow them to get airborne 40 minutes from the call, and they are configured for medevac missions. As for whether or not it is a core military capability, I think you will find that "Aid to the Civil Power" IS a core military capability, and always will be.
As for the aircrew, they do not go looking for congratulations after making flights like this. As one who performs missions such as these from time to time, I go to sleep at night secure in the knowledge that I helped save a life (or at least try to). That's all the congratulations I need.
Fourfans.
Some good news from Lyneham for a change! Haven't seen any news today, but I would hope the PR department has gone national and squeezed out every bit of positive publicity from this - too many people associate the military with bad news these days. I know everyone was just doing their jobs, but what the hell?
With due regard to the SAR Force too.
With due regard to the SAR Force too.
Fat Albert
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Slightly off topic but it was always reassuring to know that whilst in the Falklands, Albert or the Vicky 10 would be on hand to get you away if there was a compasssionate problem back home and no Timmy around. (Accompanied a few as tech support on Albert) (I assume this service is available the sunnier climes as well?).
Also did a number of Medevacs for locals and fishermen etc.
It may be a simplistic view but if the capability is there and the crews are able then why not provide the service. If nothing else its good PR, and good for morale.
Also did a number of Medevacs for locals and fishermen etc.
It may be a simplistic view but if the capability is there and the crews are able then why not provide the service. If nothing else its good PR, and good for morale.
Champagne anyone...?
Can't believe people are whinging about this. Rubbish. Go away.
Well done boys, it's all good PR and Mark is the the most splendid of all our pilots. Except me.
Well done boys, it's all good PR and Mark is the the most splendid of all our pilots. Except me.