British Plane on Fire in Afghanistan..
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It was stated earlier that the ac is still doing 40 knots in the photo. Now if we continue with the most obvious explanation that it was indeed a mine, could be the crew received a double engine fire indication. The two fire indications closely following each other. It takes a finite amount of time to react to that situation in the landing rollout. If the ac ran over the mine early in the rollout it would also explain why no engines are in reverse and explain for the damage to the undercarriage. Once more I take my hat off to the crew, tricky handling, cool heads, bloody heroes one and all. I bet the ambassador was impressed.
If Mr TACAT had driven over a landmine he would now be brown bread, unless of course he was driving the ambassador's car. He is a VIP and they don't have to drive in fibre glass Land Rovers. Why is it that our troops always get the worst kit?
If Mr TACAT had driven over a landmine he would now be brown bread, unless of course he was driving the ambassador's car. He is a VIP and they don't have to drive in fibre glass Land Rovers. Why is it that our troops always get the worst kit?
Last edited by nigegilb; 10th Jul 2006 at 17:53.
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I was fascinated to learn that way back in Aden, the RCT/REME used to clear desert strips for the Beverley by driving a Ferret armoured car up and down the strip. The thinking was that it was better to lose a ferret rather than an aircraft - though I am not sure it would be politically acceptable these days. However, the principle still remains that land mines have been used before to 'down' ac. Anyone know the current SOPs for Landing Zone Safety Officers for such clearances - or have we collectively forgotten the lessons of history??
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Come on Flip, you know better than to ask questions like that. The army have been driving in fibre glass landrovers for years in Iraq. Belated good news today on the armoured vehicles destined for both theatres. Belated, because at least 18 deaths have been attributed to inadequately armoured vehicles. All the same, Des B did a good job.
I am now waiting for the announcement that the landmine was an 'old' one.
I am now waiting for the announcement that the landmine was an 'old' one.
Last edited by nigegilb; 25th Jul 2006 at 20:55.
Nig,
Was there an outcry amongst the British public about the "Tommy Cookers" (Sherman Tanks with gasoline engines) during WWII? How many guys died as a result of using gasoline as fuel vice diesel engines?
The Oppos have proven to be very adaptable in the building more sophisticated and capable IED's that defeat even the M1 Abrams armour. There is some point at which no matter what one does....people will still die in combat. That is the nature of that human interaction.
Was there an outcry amongst the British public about the "Tommy Cookers" (Sherman Tanks with gasoline engines) during WWII? How many guys died as a result of using gasoline as fuel vice diesel engines?
The Oppos have proven to be very adaptable in the building more sophisticated and capable IED's that defeat even the M1 Abrams armour. There is some point at which no matter what one does....people will still die in combat. That is the nature of that human interaction.
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Originally Posted by SASless
Was there an outcry amongst the British public about the "Tommy Cookers" (Sherman Tanks with gasoline engines) during WWII? How many guys died as a result of using gasoline as fuel vice diesel engines?
I'll get my anorak.
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SASless I think you will find that Uncle Sam is selling us some armoured vehicles in the interim period.
Thanks. I don't suppose you want to trade them for snatch landrovers?
Thanks. I don't suppose you want to trade them for snatch landrovers?
Last edited by nigegilb; 25th Jul 2006 at 20:56.
"Snatch Landrovers".....sounds like a crack unit that does hairy things!
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Originally Posted by flipster
3PD
Neither am I a mine-expert, however, I believe that laying a well-hidden landmine is done surprisingly easily - that's why they are blowing off people's legs all over the world - thanks to the nations that sell them! The above strip looks like a nondescript 'bit of desert' and the surface is 'au naturel' making concealment easy.
Neither am I a mine-expert, however, I believe that laying a well-hidden landmine is done surprisingly easily - that's why they are blowing off people's legs all over the world - thanks to the nations that sell them! The above strip looks like a nondescript 'bit of desert' and the surface is 'au naturel' making concealment easy.
In this case if a mine was the cause it was a relatively fast moving aircraft which has a far higher ground clearance and is far more streamlined on the fuselage side than a tank and thereby more likely to deflect any blastup and to the side rather than down, that saying an A/T mine would punch right through the aircraft skin without even slowing down. As to damage to the port U/C assembly I wouldn’t like to say, never seen one go over a mine before but I wouldn’t think it would be pretty if it was an A/T mine.
An A/P mine would most likely just burst the tyres and take out the wheel bay hydraulics, may even spread some shrap' but that may/may not have reached the engines at that speed. A bouncing mine on the other hand...
But this is all guess work and until the BoE reports we really won’t know, what is without doubt is the skill and professionalism of the crew in stopping a rolling wreck and getting everyone out so well. Well done.
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Nige,
Slightly off topic but I notice that you have twice talked of "Fibre-glass Land Rovers". In fact, all LR bodywork is of an aluminium alloy. (Don't want to give the politicians any wriggle room in PQs).
I agree with your sentiment that they are flimsy and totally inadequate, protection wise. Power to your elbow mate.
Slightly off topic but I notice that you have twice talked of "Fibre-glass Land Rovers". In fact, all LR bodywork is of an aluminium alloy. (Don't want to give the politicians any wriggle room in PQs).
I agree with your sentiment that they are flimsy and totally inadequate, protection wise. Power to your elbow mate.
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Thanks Gainesy,
I almost got involved in the army LR campaign, but I rapidly realised it was quite a complicated subject with no obvious solution aka foam for Herc. It was clear that the army were having to use whatever vehicle was available even if it was not fit for purpose, but I decided to leave it to the experts. I have to say I am impressed with what Des Browne has sorted. He has gone direct to the manufacturer and uparmed the existing design. And no, it is not being built in the UK at great cost and time delay, as a result, the boys should have the vehicles in the next few months. Contrast this with the Typhoon and Apache farce. More power to the elbow of Des and DEC! Maybe they will learn from this. How about some Russian helicopters next and sort the Hercs out somewhere else.
Seriously I have been a big critic of the woeful state of equipment and protection but credit where it is due, everyone involved did a great job.
I almost got involved in the army LR campaign, but I rapidly realised it was quite a complicated subject with no obvious solution aka foam for Herc. It was clear that the army were having to use whatever vehicle was available even if it was not fit for purpose, but I decided to leave it to the experts. I have to say I am impressed with what Des Browne has sorted. He has gone direct to the manufacturer and uparmed the existing design. And no, it is not being built in the UK at great cost and time delay, as a result, the boys should have the vehicles in the next few months. Contrast this with the Typhoon and Apache farce. More power to the elbow of Des and DEC! Maybe they will learn from this. How about some Russian helicopters next and sort the Hercs out somewhere else.
Seriously I have been a big critic of the woeful state of equipment and protection but credit where it is due, everyone involved did a great job.
Last edited by nigegilb; 26th Jul 2006 at 09:37.
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Gainsey
I think that what is being referred to here are the "Snatch" LRs which have an element of armour (but insufficient for the risks in theatre). They are designed to withstand small arms fire, but do not provide any protection from the large IEDs that are being used in Iraq.
I'm not sure, but I think the armour is contained with a fibre-glass shell, hence the expression.
Times article which confirms my theory.
I think that what is being referred to here are the "Snatch" LRs which have an element of armour (but insufficient for the risks in theatre). They are designed to withstand small arms fire, but do not provide any protection from the large IEDs that are being used in Iraq.
I'm not sure, but I think the armour is contained with a fibre-glass shell, hence the expression.
Times article which confirms my theory.
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No definite word on land mine but asside from a couple of other theories at the time of the incident I have no reason to believe it is anything other than a land mine. Don't know what sort for sure either.
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Originally Posted by flipster
I was fascinated to learn that way back in Aden, the RCT/REME used to clear desert strips for the Beverley by driving a Ferret armoured car up and down the strip. ....
Flipster
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Originally Posted by flipster
Lets hope the army really do get the protective kit they deserve but one hopes that it won't be sufficient enough to allow them to clear LZs for Albert!
A scary bit of kit and for the operator apparently an experience to be missed when it 'finds' something noisy!!! 
