RAF Tanker Deal
If the FSTA is maintained by civilian engineers it certainly wont need a SENGO, JENGO, BENGO, WO (i/c passes, duties freedom of .. parades) TM's SAGE (senior GE) GE's, chiefs, Sgts, Cpls, J/T's, assorted mechs, suppliers and others I am sure I have forgotten! Big saving then!
Why is it that if you give people licences you think they will all leave? Have you thought that people join up because they want to be in the RAF. Sure it'll be handy once they leave, but I expect the majority will stay in (there's always the exception).
In order for the aircraft to be operated in the civil role it must be maintained under EASA regulations. FSTA engineers will operate under Part 66 regs as will the RAF engineers .
In order for the aircraft to be operated in the civil role it must be maintained under EASA regulations. FSTA engineers will operate under Part 66 regs as will the RAF engineers .
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Saintsman, it doesn't work like that. We civilianise a task AND we make the troops leave. With licences at least you are ready when they open the door.
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Originally Posted by Saintsman
Why is it that if you give people licences you think they will all leave? Have you thought that people join up because they want to be in the RAF. Sure it'll be handy once they leave, but I expect the majority will stay in (there's always the exception).
In order for the aircraft to be operated in the civil role it must be maintained under EASA regulations. FSTA engineers will operate under Part 66 regs as will the RAF engineers .
In order for the aircraft to be operated in the civil role it must be maintained under EASA regulations. FSTA engineers will operate under Part 66 regs as will the RAF engineers .
are you serving saintsman? just curious like
the reason people leave is simple, you can earn more working in civvie street 20-30000 compared with 21500 which is my current salary, second you usally do 37-40 hours a week , the rest is over time, something the RAF doesnt give ( yes we get a X-factor of 13%, which if you take that off makes the wages 19500 for myself) and you have no trips to hot dusty countries which last for four months out of every 18. Am talking from a techies perspective but am sure the aircrew and the rest of the RAF are in the same boat
And in reply to anyone who says , if you dont like it leave, my PVR is in 38 working days to go lol. Am not out to bash the RAF either I loved it and I have made friends for life and travelled around getting upto drunken japes at the countries expense, but it is dishearting to see the writting that the RAF high ups and the ministry of dunces (MoD) have written for us. Warfighter first and all that as my management keep reminding us
I did my time although it was a few years ago.
People always think the grass is greener but in reality life in British civil aviation is not as rosy as it used to be. There are not loads of vacancies for engineers. The MROs are closing and moving out to the Far East or Eastern Europe because you can pay people peanuts and they don't worry about H&S etc. The airlines are also cutting down on in-house maintenance because its cheaper to send their aircraft abroad. We don't make aircraft in this country any more either. Some companies don't pay overtime either and operate a banked hours policy with time off in lieu. The summer's not a busy time at MROs because airlines need all their aircraft ferrying people on their hols.
Yes you may have a licence but where do you get your Boeing and Airbus experience in the RAF? Of course their are some jobs out there but the oportunites for big money are few and far between. There is money on the contractors circuit but then you are away from home - just like being in the RAF then.
People always think the grass is greener but in reality life in British civil aviation is not as rosy as it used to be. There are not loads of vacancies for engineers. The MROs are closing and moving out to the Far East or Eastern Europe because you can pay people peanuts and they don't worry about H&S etc. The airlines are also cutting down on in-house maintenance because its cheaper to send their aircraft abroad. We don't make aircraft in this country any more either. Some companies don't pay overtime either and operate a banked hours policy with time off in lieu. The summer's not a busy time at MROs because airlines need all their aircraft ferrying people on their hols.
Yes you may have a licence but where do you get your Boeing and Airbus experience in the RAF? Of course their are some jobs out there but the oportunites for big money are few and far between. There is money on the contractors circuit but then you are away from home - just like being in the RAF then.
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New Operating Model ?
Just thinking aloud here....
In my twenty plus years in the TA I have encountered a significant proportion of ex-Regulars who left HM Armed Forces due to economic / family presssures but who missed being 'in the system' so much they signed back on in the Reserves.
Maybe our recruiting, training and retention system should be robust enough to offer portable qualifications, but in return for getting an EASA chit or whatever, said technician agrees to serve 28 days a year for five years in the Reserves.
Currency on type would be a problem but at least his/her experience wouldn't be lost to the military forever. (This is the model that applies to pilots in 7 Regt AAC(V)).
At the minute, the RAuxAF appears to offer very few trades aside from Gunner, FP [aka STO] and certainly none in Engineering.
Of course, this assumes that the Reserves are not mis-used as Regulars-on-the-cheap.....
FP
In my twenty plus years in the TA I have encountered a significant proportion of ex-Regulars who left HM Armed Forces due to economic / family presssures but who missed being 'in the system' so much they signed back on in the Reserves.
Maybe our recruiting, training and retention system should be robust enough to offer portable qualifications, but in return for getting an EASA chit or whatever, said technician agrees to serve 28 days a year for five years in the Reserves.
Currency on type would be a problem but at least his/her experience wouldn't be lost to the military forever. (This is the model that applies to pilots in 7 Regt AAC(V)).
At the minute, the RAuxAF appears to offer very few trades aside from Gunner, FP [aka STO] and certainly none in Engineering.
Of course, this assumes that the Reserves are not mis-used as Regulars-on-the-cheap.....
FP
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think all regulars, on retirement, have a committment of 3 years (maybe 5) in the reserves. This is a hang over of the CW and in practice was rarely (ever?) used. You left, you moved, and they lost touch.
When the CW hotted up in the 80s there were thoughts of making the committment a bit firmer but I am not aware that anything happened. Essentially it was a paper tiger with no money for the reservists and no money to administer it.
To make the committment a hard one would require a significant amount of funding. Given a strength of 42000 and an average service life of say 14 years we would have a turnover of 3000 per year. For 3 years that is a reserve committment of 9000 x 28 days or the equivalent of 850 men. They would cost IRO £200k (minimum) and probably nearer £500k when you add in admin support and integration costs.
If you are in a redundant trade you could only do an odds and sods job. If you moved into one of th egrey suit jobs it would simly mean donning greens for 4 weeks per year and probably being paid 3 times (pension, job, reserve) and doing your present job.
Then how would the national economy like it as 9000 RAF, 6000 RN and 20000 Army all down tools, don uniforms, and go off to play? And that on top of the current boys in the sandpit.
When the CW hotted up in the 80s there were thoughts of making the committment a bit firmer but I am not aware that anything happened. Essentially it was a paper tiger with no money for the reservists and no money to administer it.
To make the committment a hard one would require a significant amount of funding. Given a strength of 42000 and an average service life of say 14 years we would have a turnover of 3000 per year. For 3 years that is a reserve committment of 9000 x 28 days or the equivalent of 850 men. They would cost IRO £200k (minimum) and probably nearer £500k when you add in admin support and integration costs.
If you are in a redundant trade you could only do an odds and sods job. If you moved into one of th egrey suit jobs it would simly mean donning greens for 4 weeks per year and probably being paid 3 times (pension, job, reserve) and doing your present job.
Then how would the national economy like it as 9000 RAF, 6000 RN and 20000 Army all down tools, don uniforms, and go off to play? And that on top of the current boys in the sandpit.
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I think all regulars, on retirement, have a committment of 3 years (maybe 5) in the reserves
That's because you work for a non-UK company, TT!
There are quite a few folk around - particularly those who PVR'd - who haven't a clue what their recall or call-out liabilities are under the Reserve Forces Act. That never used to matter - until Bliar's government called-out non-volunteer reservists for GW2. The first time that'd happened since Suez in 1956.....
The increasing reliance on an increasingly reluctant number of reservists is yet another of those crazy MoD decisions which will soon come home to roost. 'Total Force'.......or total farce?
As for 9 plus 6 A330Ks - well, just hope that they don't need to be in 2 places at once.
24 x A310MRTT would have been a much, much better option. Too late now though. OK - 71 tonne of fuel rather than 111 tonne, but at one stage they would have been available for 1/3 of the cost.
I cannot imagine anyone being daft enough to want to be a mercenary on the FSTA - unless the fringe terms are pretty spanking good!
There are quite a few folk around - particularly those who PVR'd - who haven't a clue what their recall or call-out liabilities are under the Reserve Forces Act. That never used to matter - until Bliar's government called-out non-volunteer reservists for GW2. The first time that'd happened since Suez in 1956.....
The increasing reliance on an increasingly reluctant number of reservists is yet another of those crazy MoD decisions which will soon come home to roost. 'Total Force'.......or total farce?
As for 9 plus 6 A330Ks - well, just hope that they don't need to be in 2 places at once.
24 x A310MRTT would have been a much, much better option. Too late now though. OK - 71 tonne of fuel rather than 111 tonne, but at one stage they would have been available for 1/3 of the cost.
I cannot imagine anyone being daft enough to want to be a mercenary on the FSTA - unless the fringe terms are pretty spanking good!
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Beagle
Your are right, a lot of people are not aware of what they signed up to when they PVR'd especially those who haven't completed a pensionable term.
The good news is that the nice Mr Bliar has already stated that any reservist failing to respond to a call out will NOT be jailed.
In my particular case I have absolutely nothing to worry about!
I also left after 28 years with no reserve commitment.
Your are right, a lot of people are not aware of what they signed up to when they PVR'd especially those who haven't completed a pensionable term.
The good news is that the nice Mr Bliar has already stated that any reservist failing to respond to a call out will NOT be jailed.
In my particular case I have absolutely nothing to worry about!
I also left after 28 years with no reserve commitment.
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NAO Report into Reserve Forces
There are quite a few folk around - particularly those who PVR'd - who haven't a clue what their recall or call-out liabilities are under the Reserve Forces Act. That never used to matter - until Bliar's government called-out non-volunteer reservists for GW2.
19 The Department’s requirement for Army Regular Reserves on a large-scale operation assumes a higher success rate in mobilising Regular Reservists than has previously been achieved.
Recommendation 9: The Department should develop robust systems to manage those Regular Reservists it is most likely to require and to ensure that their training is up to date. Informing valuable personnel of their ongoing liability as Regular Reservists will be of key importance in ensuring that they can be mobilised when necessary.
Recommendation 9: The Department should develop robust systems to manage those Regular Reservists it is most likely to require and to ensure that their training is up to date. Informing valuable personnel of their ongoing liability as Regular Reservists will be of key importance in ensuring that they can be mobilised when necessary.
The document also defines "Sponsored Reservists" - (BEagle's mercenaries).
Sponsored Reserves
Some services which are provided in peacetime by a civilian contractor are provided on operations
by staff drawn from the contractor’s workforce who are members of the Reserve Forces, and have
been mobilised. Individuals in this category are known as Sponsored Reserves. There are currently
253 Sponsored Reserves associated with a range of contracts including crews for the roll-on roll-off ships, drivers for the Army’s Heavy Equipment Transporters and engineers supporting 32 (The Royal) Squadron.
Some services which are provided in peacetime by a civilian contractor are provided on operations
by staff drawn from the contractor’s workforce who are members of the Reserve Forces, and have
been mobilised. Individuals in this category are known as Sponsored Reserves. There are currently
253 Sponsored Reserves associated with a range of contracts including crews for the roll-on roll-off ships, drivers for the Army’s Heavy Equipment Transporters and engineers supporting 32 (The Royal) Squadron.
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The article mentions 28 VC10/Tri* - are all 28 still in use or are some "notionally on strength" but really being scavenged (public domain only obviously).
Even 14 into 28 seems like a stretch. One would at least expect one of the PFI 332s to be Brown Force 1 if not already committed (the other fella will be gone by then right? Right?) rather than a BA or even RAF 777 with all the needless duplication the latter would entail.
Even 14 into 28 seems like a stretch. One would at least expect one of the PFI 332s to be Brown Force 1 if not already committed (the other fella will be gone by then right? Right?) rather than a BA or even RAF 777 with all the needless duplication the latter would entail.
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9 A330s to replace the VC10/Tristar tankers 
Of course there will also be 5 further ac made available to 3rd-party use and held at "short-notice readiness"
Ummmmmmmmm
Well Adam Ingram did promise to buy me a new jet the other day when we took him on a VC10.... so one of those nine is mine!!!
Tonks
Of course there will also be 5 further ac made available to 3rd-party use and held at "short-notice readiness"
Ummmmmmmmm Well Adam Ingram did promise to buy me a new jet the other day when we took him on a VC10.... so one of those nine is mine!!!
Tonks
I hope you enjoy your rental period - If you don't see Endex prior to it's Entry Into Service.
Back to the Reserves thing; If I could leave in 1999 after 24 years and I had no Reserve commitment, and TT left last year after 28 years and he (assumption) had no Reserve commitment; Exactly who DID have some Reserve commitment?
Back to the Reserves thing; If I could leave in 1999 after 24 years and I had no Reserve commitment, and TT left last year after 28 years and he (assumption) had no Reserve commitment; Exactly who DID have some Reserve commitment?
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Rigga
Usually those who have left before the 22-year point. It is assumed that all ex servicemen who are in receipt of a service pension can be recalled to active service up to (correct me if I am wrong) I think age 60.
However in order for that to actually happen we would need a general mobilisation for war not seen since 1939 and AIUI we would ALL need to be recalled not just cherry picking individual trades as now. As Pontius quite rightly said the cost of such an exercise would have G Brown going purple!
It used to be that if you served nine or twelve years you had a reserve commitment of three years so it was always quoted as 9 + 3. I believe that so far the only reservists to be called up have been those in the TA or the RAuxF and a very few "specialists" in the +3 category (mostly medical). Any one know different?
Exactly who DID have some Reserve commitment?
However in order for that to actually happen we would need a general mobilisation for war not seen since 1939 and AIUI we would ALL need to be recalled not just cherry picking individual trades as now. As Pontius quite rightly said the cost of such an exercise would have G Brown going purple!
It used to be that if you served nine or twelve years you had a reserve commitment of three years so it was always quoted as 9 + 3. I believe that so far the only reservists to be called up have been those in the TA or the RAuxF and a very few "specialists" in the +3 category (mostly medical). Any one know different?
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Comparison with the National Guard
FTR, I wasn't suggesting that the Regular Reserve commitment should be made into 'compulsory service' in some way. Rather, there does not appear to be an avenue for a technician who had to leave the Regulars for family reasons, say, to continue his trade and make use of his skills, qualifications and experience within the Volunteer RAuXAF.