MoD cost cuts 'will put troops in peril'
To answer Lee Jung's elegant point:- we need 232 TypHoons to secure the future of the RAF into the hands of the single-seat Tactical Fighter mafia & to ensure that there are plenty of non-executive director "jobs for the boys" for their airshipfulnesses when they retire. We should just get with the program, SH isn't a core airpower role to the RAF, why do you think they were more than happy to sell us down the river to Land Command in 1999? Interestingly, this focus on tactical fighters might not do the RAF any good in the long run. "Global reach, global power" was the USAF mantra a few years back, and they can do it too with the triad of strategic bombers and a large tanker force. We have neither. The nearest we have is the MRA4, which threatens the GR4 force by it's ability to loiter, ID and prosecute tgts in a permissive RF environment without the use of tankers. Unfortuanately, at just over 3Bn quid for 12 ac we could almost have got B2s from Northrop.....So we're committed to a short range FJ force dependant on HNS, apart from JCA, which could be run in toto by the RN off the carriers. Soooo, where does this leave the RAF? Full of cold war ac (TypHoon/GR4) and cold war weapons (Brimstone) but with the upper echelons reserved for the FJ community and plenty of CSPs for leaving air ranks to get stuck into. And guess what, it's the SH/CHF that pay for all of this by being tasked to do the impossible by the ungrateful in the obsolescent platforms that we currently employ. Solution to the NAOs report? Scrap the Puma, Sea King and Lynx. Hire 212s to do the menial stuff, have a small fleet of squirrels so that the Generals don't have to get in a landrover, and equip the SH/CHF with a blend of Chinook (second hand "Ds" of the US?), Merlin (to keep WHL from bleating) and a small number of Cougar/NH90 to do the jobs that the Puma currently does. Oh, and let's pay for a proper DAS on all our platforms.
Standing back, opening bottle of quaffing red.
Standing back, opening bottle of quaffing red.
The Tim Collins thread and this one have spawned furious and passionate arguments and inter-service bitching - FJ v RW, Typhoon v Carriers, Army v Navy v RAF, Global reach v don't bother coming to the war anymore etc ad infinitum.
What a pity you all haven't found a way of channelling it down the same route together against the
clowns who have led us into this mess.
The politicians will be hugging themselves in delight reading this site.
What a pity you all haven't found a way of channelling it down the same route together against the
clowns who have led us into this mess.The politicians will be hugging themselves in delight reading this site.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SE490618
Age: 64
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the clowns who have led us into this mess
clowns who have led us into this mess
What mess? Are the Armed Forces in a Mess....or has the RAF just realised what life in the Armed Forces really means? Ive been a serviceman for close on 30 years and life in the RN has always been like this. When I joined my First Squadron we were gapped an IRI and an HWI. That was a long time ago....and today, we are still gapped but we have learnt to live with it, learnt ways to avoid the pitfalls of being sent to do back to back tours ( Between 1981 and 1983 I was in the UK for 6 weeks)....and we have discovered new ways of fudging the figures so that rather than carrying gaps you shoulder them.
The equipment we use nowadays is fantastic compared to that of 25 yrs ago. We used to eat off Tin plates FFS.... the Old flying boots were blooming awful....remember those helmets which were designed for a rock ape? What about the watches that lost 3 minutes every hour...
One thing that hasn't changed in the RN is the people.....they remain the funniest, hardest and most proudest bucnh of servicemen I have had the honour to etc.... They fight hard and play hard and both fight and play to win.
So, I dont think the Armed Forces are in a mess....certainly no more so than they were 30 yrs ago. But I do think that all this bitching and moaning from RAF types shows that the RAF is slowly and gently waking up to life in the Armed Forces.
Blame My Parrot
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Somerdorset, UK
Age: 69
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MoD Cost Cuts
I note that the Reds have now been cleared to display this season and are kicking off with a 3 week tour of the Middle and Far East - so, all's well in the world then! 
Are there any Whirlwinds in storage?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
God help me, but I actually agree with a lot of what rafloo has just said. Most of it.
Some things never change, like right royal screw-ups in kit procurement and supply.
We have never had enough money or kit to do the job [have we?].
We're always saying 'it was never like this in the halycon days of old' [weren't we?].
And he's right about the people - they're still the most fantastic bunch you could ever wish to work with. [We've always had to suffer the odd T*****].
But it is just not the case that the RAF a bunch of whiners and moaners - have you tried ARRSE or RUM RATION lately?
The overwhelming tenent of most of the topics on all 3 sites is about the way the Forces are equipped and treated by our Lords and Masters - pretty badly too frequently for it to pass without comment. Stories of inadequate kit or shortages or troops being vilified etc are enough to cause many of us to blow a fuse and burst into print to vent our anger/frustration.
Because we can do very little about it.
But when something like the Herc Foam affair shows signs of success, well, much applause all round.
Few things have changed over the years, except the roll-over-and-accept syndrome that used to pervade the Forces in the days when you were expected to do as you were told and not allowed to express an opinion.
That, and better communication, like in internet forums [fora?].
Some things never change, like right royal screw-ups in kit procurement and supply.
We have never had enough money or kit to do the job [have we?].
We're always saying 'it was never like this in the halycon days of old' [weren't we?].
And he's right about the people - they're still the most fantastic bunch you could ever wish to work with. [We've always had to suffer the odd T*****].
But it is just not the case that the RAF a bunch of whiners and moaners - have you tried ARRSE or RUM RATION lately?
The overwhelming tenent of most of the topics on all 3 sites is about the way the Forces are equipped and treated by our Lords and Masters - pretty badly too frequently for it to pass without comment. Stories of inadequate kit or shortages or troops being vilified etc are enough to cause many of us to blow a fuse and burst into print to vent our anger/frustration.
Because we can do very little about it.
But when something like the Herc Foam affair shows signs of success, well, much applause all round.
Few things have changed over the years, except the roll-over-and-accept syndrome that used to pervade the Forces in the days when you were expected to do as you were told and not allowed to express an opinion.
That, and better communication, like in internet forums [fora?].
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ecosse
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reminds me of a visit by the Air Commode CIO, as it was in 1975
On entering 201 Sqn (Nimrod) crew room, he asked his PSO, " What are all these SNCO's doing here?!
Piss poor briefing eh?
It all went quite well from there on !
Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!
On entering 201 Sqn (Nimrod) crew room, he asked his PSO, " What are all these SNCO's doing here?!
Piss poor briefing eh?
It all went quite well from there on !
Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately Tony's modern adventures abroad require troops, troops and more troops plus shedloads of helicopters to move them around. peeing god knows how many billions on 292 one seat aircraft is a waste of time - we need C17s. Refurbed Comets, Minesweepers, Frigates, Apache and the like doesn't really help. Let's stop buying useless toys from BAE for a few years, buy some decent body armour and ship everyone who gets issued a weapon (from all three services) out to IRAQ for a quick six month roulement.
Perhaps we can involve everyone below the rank of let's say... one star. That should focus a few minds.
Perhaps we can involve everyone below the rank of let's say... one star. That should focus a few minds.
Last edited by Letsby Avenue; 12th Jun 2006 at 04:14.
