Capped Actuals - What are your experiences?

[SIT head]

Ratty - what a great idea - wish I'd thought of that! But alas, no room service here I'm afraid. You see, we're a bit out in the sticks.... Think Moortreck with electricity and you'll get the picture.

ABIW - one of the best things that ever came out of the States is that one word that we never used to use in this way.... Whatever!

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one.

Regards

SH

[Gwladys]

Children, children - really hoped that my first post could have been about something more exciting than actuals but there you go.
My thoughts - does anyone really think that this new system will save the Air Force money? Thought not, because as hinted by ABIW, people will simply be 'imaginative' in spending their full daily rate. I also agree that, in time, we will get more used to the system. What I cannot even come close to agreeing on is that this is as user-friendly as the daily rate system. Give me money, I spend it. If that means I have 10 pints and a kebab then so be it - my choice. Damn site less paperwork though, and no keeping receipts for the next millenium.
Last point (for now!) - I'm not hugely keen on being accused of fraud, so if there's something that I'm not 100% sure I can claim for,and it's a small amount, I'll just pay for it out of my own pocket as I suspect a lot of people will. Net result is Air Force not saving money and me spending my own - great system lads...........
p.s. 1 post, 1 whinge - good start me thinks.

[day1-week1]

alcohol

We are just about to go on det on this new goat f*!k of a system and were told that decision as to whether we can now claim for a half bottle of plonk/berr etc was pending. Has anyone got an update? I think there was something about it earlier in the thread.

[6foottanker]

Well, day 1, I'm still working on 1/2 bottle of wine or 2 beers with meal, don't know whether this applies to just dindins if you've got a down day or not. But if it's good enough for the civil service......

Just beware of the time printed on your receipt if you order your wine within the no go time period!
I've now got 2 outstanding imprests because I'm too busy to finish the paperwork, and now the guys have spread to the 4 winds, I've got no chance. I love this system, no really I do.

Now give me my damned flying pay, and let me go to the airlines, I've had enough

[SirToppamHat]

The system is clearly designed for the single MOD person who has to nip down to a meeting in London, stay over night in a hotel, and come back.

Nearly me, so hows this:

Being picked up at 0545L tomorrow for a meeting at MoD at 1000L

Car to train stn. 0645 train to London. Tube to MoD.

I would quite like breakfast at some point. Am I allowed to claim for a meal on the train? If so, what's the limit?

I have asked my HR specialist, but the poor individual has not come from PSF (so doesn't really know the old rules) and has been spending every spare moment attempting to input leave passes to the JPA as she's been the only one with access for most of the time since JPA was dumped on us.

Anyone help? Sometime in the next hour would be good as it's going to be hard enough as it is to get through the meeting so I need some sleep beforehand!

JPA Says "No".

STH

[Kev Nurse]

Earlier this year I experienced the new Actual system for the 1st time overseas. Like most people my previous encounters were always when the crew ate out as a single party and the imprest holder received a single, although huge, bill for the table. Simple. Not very popular, but it was at least a straightforward piece of business between us and the restaurant staff.

I have to say it, and I don't care who reads this, but the RAF is now causing me and my colleagues great personal embarassment when a small group of us, say 4, have to ask for individual itemised receipts when dining in decent restaurants. Its just not acceptable behaviour. "Why do you want this?" is the usual quizzical enquiry from the bemused waiter. Despite an overwhelmimg desire to name and shame my employer, I simply shrug my shoulders and meekly explain that my ridiculous boss needs it for his records. Ughh.

It has been suggested that a single itemised bill for all diners can be paid and photocopied (where and when?) and then highlighted to show what the claimant's share was, but the practicalities of this system are difficult to overcome. The folllowing day at work who can remember exactly who ate what?

I'm disappointed that I'm being made to feel embarrassed in public when complying with RAF policy. I wear my uniform with pride in public, but this particular policy is just not acceptable and needs reviewing.

[Where R We?]

Originally Posted by SirToppamHat

Nearly me, so hows this:
Being picked up at 0545L tomorrow for a meeting at MoD at 1000L
Car to train stn. 0645 train to London. Tube to MoD.
I would quite like breakfast at some point. Am I allowed to claim for a meal on the train? If so, what's the limit?
STH

I have claimed for a motorway services meal from LGW to Wiltshire on the way back from a meeting in France and they paid for it. I think you have fair justification to pay for a meal on the train at that time in the morning, especially if the train runs late and you have no other chance to eat brekkie.

Not that I am HR of course, but if you can honestly say why, I think you would be hard done by if they said no.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Day1,

Here in Wilts we have been told no alcohol, correction no alcohol featuring on a reciept, until clarification from the head counters of beans

Nursey,

Embarrased to ask a waitress for an individual bill...............I really thought I had heard it all but this takes the biscuit,were all happy to try and pull the last rhinocrocodillapig in town but asking a waitress for a sepearate check is somehow beneath us, well that's almost as pityful as saying every food and drink outlet in Texas is shut 24 hours a day..........

6footer,

Imprest holder gives folks money, ROPE form and envelope. Imprest holder tells folks what daily sub rate is. Should folk be daft or unimginative enough not to spend all of daily sub rate they give imprest holder back money and he writes amount taken on rate sheet.............just like it always was.

Folks spend sub rate or whatever, fill in ROPE form places reciept where neccesary in envelope, seals envelope and give back to imprest holder.

Imprest holder returns imprest paperwork and ROPE forms for balancing as ever was and sealed envelopes of recipts for potential audit..............so please explain why you have two imprests outstanding cos as far as I can see **** all has changed from how it used to be.......... apart from now handing in sealed envelopes of reciepts..................I am having a real problem seeing any difficulty here folks and as SH pointed out I am a feckwit

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Brain Potter]

ABIW - "If those in reciept of capped actuals are too stupid or unimaginative to plan a daily expenditure to fully utilise the capped actual allowance..."

Agreed, but however try this one. Nightstopped in Canada last week. Wheels the following day were before the hotel started doing breakfast (inc roomservice) so we had to find a really expensive restaurant for dinner and try our damendest to spend the whole aggregated daily rate. Didn't quite manage it but made a fine effort. The following day the trip was delayed - but if the plan the night before had worked properly we now would have had no money left for breakfast.

Dilemma - do you keep a suitable amount back for breakfast "just in case"? If so you risk losing it if there is no delay and (worse) the underspend will let them justify cutting the capped rate as it is not always spent.

Furthermore, still not had words on when the next day starts and the pot renews itself. Is it 24 hours after landing? Or is it 29 hours (ie including the new 5 hours on the ground)?

The admin burden for complicated multi-currency trips is huge, particularly trails, where you might also have to look after some FJ mates for a night or 2. Do the paperwork on the inbound leg they say - but what about flying the aircraft? Maybe we should ring them up and ask them to postion report, gather weather, listen to ATC, maintain a radio flight log etc whilst they are sitting behind their desks devising the next fiasco.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Brain,

See your dilemma re eating your body weight then being delayed, must be a Nimrod crew as you almost eat you whole days allowance on dinner but still had room for breakfast.............in flight rats to follow.........gannets.......... however I will leave it up to your conscience as to how best manage in future your "daily" sub rate

As regards timings we have been advised it is 29 hours between daily issues but again we wait on clarification.

Top tip, on the J we realised at the outset that the Co was not the best placed person to run the imprest, hence the ALM has always run it. If you have flight safety/training issues as we did then address them and get someone with more time available to them to manage your FSI's.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[PlasticCabDriver]

So what happens if the restaurant simply says "No, we are too busy" to individual bills, or you are abroad and you simply cannot get the Greek/Uzbeki/Welsh waiter to understand what you mean by "individual itemised bills, with only half a bottle of wine charged on each, with a separate bill for any wine left over etc etc"? If you are in a restaurant, and it passes midnight, can you use 2 days allowance on one meal?

At some point common sense has to take over? Doesn't it?

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"So what happens if the restaurant simply says "No, we are too busy" to individual bills, or you are abroad and you simply cannot get the Greek/Uzbeki/Welsh waiter to understand what you mean by "individual itemised bills, with only half a bottle of wine charged on each, with a separate bill for any wine left over etc etc"? If you are in a restaurant, and it passes midnight, can you use 2 days allowance on one meal?"

How on earth were you ever selected for, let alone allowed to pass an aircrew course , there were more taxing time/distance problems than this at Biggen Hill for fecks sake............


In order to stem the potential blood loss as I prepare to bang my head against the wall at some of the bolleaux so far posted on here............I am off to bed

all spelling mistakes are "df" capped actual paid for alcohol induced

[nigegilb]

always, the answer is to split the thread ascoteers on one, fast jet boys/girls on the other, then see how much money each thread spends. simple really.

On the other hand, I am thinking hard now, if RAF train ALM to fly point jet, problem go away. yes?

[SIT head]

ABIW.
You really do seem to have got it sussed. Perhaps you could come along on some Dets that don't quite fit the ASCOT regulation weight and size of doing business and show us all the error of our ways. It might be quite a lonely Det for you though, but I'd gladly take the offer of that beer if you were running the dosh. I couldn't reciprocate though (buy you one back, that is), cos all the places I go to are shut.
By the way, I don't remember calling you a 'feckwit' as you said in an earlier post. Don't be so hard on yourself, I'm sure that not all slow readers are 'feckwits', they probably just need a bit of help here and there. But if the cap fits...
Regards
SH

[vascodegama]

Last time I looked there were 24 hrs in a day so I cant see why we wait 29 for a replenishment of dosh. In Oxon the half bottle rule is still in but it would n't be the first time the stations do things differently-REMEMBER THE 75% RULE? Next time breakfast isn't available why not ask the Captain to request a revitin to allow it -that should stir things up.

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Originally Posted by vascodegama

Next time breakfast isn't available why not ask the Captain to request a revitin to allow it -that should stir things up.

Isn't it mandatory to eat before flying?

[Brain Potter]

It used to be mandatory to fly before eating

[dallas]

vasco

I doubt you'll get a revitin if you carry either in-flight or the standard C130 pallet of food. While I agree that capped actuals are a sh!te way to operate, ascoteers rarely waste away due to shortage of food do they?

I happened to bump into a USAF C-141 crew some time ago and they were self-catering - and by that I mean they brought sandwiches and a flask from home!

Some w*nker somewhere, deep in blunt land, has figured the fiscal saving from capped actuals, probably including people not claiming everything they're entitled to, is worth the expense of individuals time completing the paperwork and staff wages to administer. In the mean time your taxes are paying minister's mortgages. It will hardly affect me, yet epitomises why I'm counting the days until I get out; the Service will, of course, do nothing until they wonder where everyone has gone.

[Vortex_Generator]

My experience is going on det as the only Brit, with another air force, to a third country where English was not widely spoken. Dining out tended to be in largeish groups of 10-20 and was generally of the Mediterranean style, i.e. order a large selection of food and everyone gets stuck in. My colleagues were on their equivalent of OSA, so had no constraints regarding alcohol. Try explaining to the (limited English speaking) waiter that you would like a separate bill for one seventeenth of the food consumed, plus 2 beers. There were also a couple of occasions where my colleagues would put on a det barbeque, with the usual X amount for all you can eat and drink. I can hardly ask for a receipt for that, so how do I claim. Having spent around 3 hours doing the post det admin just to get what I am entitled to, and having the prospect of someone checking over it and pointing an accusatory finger if I have made a mistake somewhere, I will be very reluctant to undertake any further such detachments.

[Acey ducey]

Personal responsibility

Originally Posted by Brain Potter

It used to be mandatory to fly before eating

"Eat till you are tired, sleep till you are hungry!!"

Not being of the light blue variety, why all the hassle with one person being responsible for the money. Surley it's an individual entitlement and should be an individual responsibility. Maybe they don't have cash machines where you guys go.

On a slightly different note, I spend a lot of time in Vegas working woth the Yanks, do you think I could "use my imagination" and claim actuals for my exploits on the blackjack tables?