Please someone tell me this is a wind up.
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Please someone tell me this is a wind up.
Well, this is a rumour network, but I could not and I mean could not believe what I heard today.
I am still in a state of bewilderment.
Should I laugh this off, or should I cry and really believe such a thing could even be considered.
Today, a reliable friend informed my good self of a proposed change in practise within the field of aircraft engineering training.
I am still in shock, shock, shock.
It appears that DCAE Cosford makes so much money from teaching Middle Eastern forces that a decision has been made to capitalise on this and turn it into a sort of "other Air Forces" training base. Full Stop.
As for our own young guys and gals, they will just be farmed out to cheaper, civvy owned and run training "colleges", where they will learn absolutely nothing about military life during their crucial first steps.
FFS please tell me that this is a
wind up.
We train others at the behest of our own?
I am in pain.
Talk Wrench
I am still in a state of bewilderment.
Should I laugh this off, or should I cry and really believe such a thing could even be considered.
Today, a reliable friend informed my good self of a proposed change in practise within the field of aircraft engineering training.
I am still in shock, shock, shock.
It appears that DCAE Cosford makes so much money from teaching Middle Eastern forces that a decision has been made to capitalise on this and turn it into a sort of "other Air Forces" training base. Full Stop.
As for our own young guys and gals, they will just be farmed out to cheaper, civvy owned and run training "colleges", where they will learn absolutely nothing about military life during their crucial first steps.
FFS please tell me that this is a
wind up.We train others at the behest of our own?
I am in pain.
Talk Wrench
Not at all - I heard that they were going to be automatically enrolled at Telford College of Arts and Technology on their Certificate in Engineering (Installation, Commissioning and Maintenance) course.
This way its all much cheaper and they get a recognised civi qualification (used in the loosest sense of the word about anything academic coming out of Telford) that will enable them to get a job when we drop to 35,000 and replace all our techies with the off-spring of Call Centre operators from Bangalore who we only need to pay 14p / hr.
I wish it were a joke, but I wouldn't be suprised to find that it hasn't been "floated around" as an example of blue-sky thinking.
This way its all much cheaper and they get a recognised civi qualification (used in the loosest sense of the word about anything academic coming out of Telford) that will enable them to get a job when we drop to 35,000 and replace all our techies with the off-spring of Call Centre operators from Bangalore who we only need to pay 14p / hr.
I wish it were a joke, but I wouldn't be suprised to find that it hasn't been "floated around" as an example of blue-sky thinking.
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Talk Wrench
It's almost true, DCAE Cosford has a significant input of students from other nations armed forces, but I don't think it could be called the main role of the college.
The students are (mostly) nominated for courses by a department of PTC called International Defence Training, who deal with both government-to-government deals (of which some are primarily revenue generating, but many others will be supporting other elements of the defence mission, such as maintaining cordial relations with potential DOB owners!) and also provision of RAF training to other commercial third parties.
Provision of RAF training to commercial third parties is vital to allow industry to work alongside the RAF in engineering our kit. A good example would the the provision of places on the Chinook Managers Course to the contractor responsible for fitting the Bowman radio system, without which the airframes could not have been taken off the line and handed to the contractor for the period of work required.
There is a website, http://www.raf-horizon-training.com/1_home.html which details the general setup if you would like more information.
Hope this helps
Blunty
It's almost true, DCAE Cosford has a significant input of students from other nations armed forces, but I don't think it could be called the main role of the college.
The students are (mostly) nominated for courses by a department of PTC called International Defence Training, who deal with both government-to-government deals (of which some are primarily revenue generating, but many others will be supporting other elements of the defence mission, such as maintaining cordial relations with potential DOB owners!) and also provision of RAF training to other commercial third parties.
Provision of RAF training to commercial third parties is vital to allow industry to work alongside the RAF in engineering our kit. A good example would the the provision of places on the Chinook Managers Course to the contractor responsible for fitting the Bowman radio system, without which the airframes could not have been taken off the line and handed to the contractor for the period of work required.
There is a website, http://www.raf-horizon-training.com/1_home.html which details the general setup if you would like more information.
Hope this helps
Blunty
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OK.
As far as foreign policy allows, I have no doubt that training "other Air Forces" will exist as part of various governmental deals. e.g Omani Air Force, project Al Yamamah etc is within the "best interest philosophy".
However, I abhor the particular fact that OUR airmen and airwomen of which whom strive to be top quality engineers, will be sent out to a non mil establishment whilst we train others.
Whilst I will never disagree with the feed of modern civilian aircraft technology into (sic) military education, I do not wish to see our younger types enrolled on civvy college courses which replaces basic military aircraft education.
If DCAE are planning this, then the engineering standards will go down. Not by technological understanding, rather than the erosion of MILITARY STANDING.
There are plenty of civilian aircraft engineers who are skilled beyond the scope of military service and indeed should not suffer ridicule.
BUT, they are the ones who WILL NOT go to WAR.
THE MILITARY SIDE OF AIRCRAFT ENGINEERING SHOULD NOT BE UNDERMINED
BY THE PEN PUSHING BEAN COUNTERS, WHO THINK TRAINING AN ENGINEER IN A CIVIL TRAINING ENVIRONMENT WILL MAKE THEM GOOD MILITARY ENGINEERS.
Otherwise, they would be just civvies.
Talk Wrench
As far as foreign policy allows, I have no doubt that training "other Air Forces" will exist as part of various governmental deals. e.g Omani Air Force, project Al Yamamah etc is within the "best interest philosophy".
However, I abhor the particular fact that OUR airmen and airwomen of which whom strive to be top quality engineers, will be sent out to a non mil establishment whilst we train others.
Whilst I will never disagree with the feed of modern civilian aircraft technology into (sic) military education, I do not wish to see our younger types enrolled on civvy college courses which replaces basic military aircraft education.
If DCAE are planning this, then the engineering standards will go down. Not by technological understanding, rather than the erosion of MILITARY STANDING.
There are plenty of civilian aircraft engineers who are skilled beyond the scope of military service and indeed should not suffer ridicule.
BUT, they are the ones who WILL NOT go to WAR.
THE MILITARY SIDE OF AIRCRAFT ENGINEERING SHOULD NOT BE UNDERMINED
BY THE PEN PUSHING BEAN COUNTERS, WHO THINK TRAINING AN ENGINEER IN A CIVIL TRAINING ENVIRONMENT WILL MAKE THEM GOOD MILITARY ENGINEERS.
Otherwise, they would be just civvies.
Talk Wrench
What a strange, commercially driven, world the RAF has become.
Surely, training RAF mechanics and technicians to Civilian Mechanical or Avionic standards will certainly ensure a quicker turnover of qualified staff as they learn where the greener grass is.
I would estimate a good five years service from them before they all leave.
That should make most SAC Tech's a more sought after commodity than Pilots previously were.
Possibly, The RAF could hire some of its foreign trainees? How's that for out-sourcing?
Surely, training RAF mechanics and technicians to Civilian Mechanical or Avionic standards will certainly ensure a quicker turnover of qualified staff as they learn where the greener grass is.
I would estimate a good five years service from them before they all leave.
That should make most SAC Tech's a more sought after commodity than Pilots previously were.
Possibly, The RAF could hire some of its foreign trainees? How's that for out-sourcing?
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No idea if it's true or not but if DCAE Cosford became for other nations maintainers then that leads on to a need for this place....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4825632.stm
Training reviews to co-locate engineering training have been going on for some time but I haven't heard any definate plans yet. When I was at Gosport there was much talk of REME moving in and all RN Air Eng training moving to Cosford but it hasn't happened yet. If you have access to the Defence Intranet there is probably info in there somewhere.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4825632.stm
Training reviews to co-locate engineering training have been going on for some time but I haven't heard any definate plans yet. When I was at Gosport there was much talk of REME moving in and all RN Air Eng training moving to Cosford but it hasn't happened yet. If you have access to the Defence Intranet there is probably info in there somewhere.
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What will this do to recruitment I wonder?
Especially at a time when it is harder to find talented technician engineers out of school.
I concur that the only way to teach military engineers is in a military environment. When will the RAF wake up to its own self destruction?
Especially at a time when it is harder to find talented technician engineers out of school.
I concur that the only way to teach military engineers is in a military environment. When will the RAF wake up to its own self destruction?
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It has already happened; there are posters all over camp declaring Cosford to be the Defence College for Arab Engineering (DCAE). Sixteen multi skill courses were cancelled last year to free up instructors to teach these students. The rest of the RAF was fed the lie that this was due to a shortage of classrooms due to a hangar refurbishment. Plenty of classrooms, lack of instructors. Still, at least we made a few quid for the government.
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One fairly high-profile course I am aware of (ahem) used to have one or 2 overseas officers with about 10 RAF. Latest stats see the RAF making up less than half of the numbers. I can see how that might be good for the overseas chaps, but how exactly do our guys benefit. If they were Commonwealth or NATO then maybe, but they all come from warmer climes. Just what do they offer us apart from money....?
