Future Carrier (Including Costs)
On 25 November it will be 61 years since Hermes was commissioned into the RN. She was the last link with the WW2 carriers having been laid down in June 1944 and the last 20th Century UK built Carrier. Sad that neither country could preserve her to allow future generations to experience a representative of the first century of UK naval aviation.
UK led #5thGen Carrier Strike Group - you can see the problem - with 2 such groups most of the currently active surface warships are in only two places - you don't have much capacity to send to the ME, S China Sea, or anywhere else..........
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But we didn’t have that capability, even before we got the new carriers.
Thread Starter
UK led #5thGen Carrier Strike Group - you can see the problem - with 2 such groups most of the currently active surface warships are in only two places - you don't have much capacity to send to the ME, S China Sea, or anywhere else..........
In any case would would we want to send in a crisis? Yes, a task group.
Personally I consider that the GROUPEX is an operation activity - given the renewed strategic importance of the Atlantic and the need for things like AAW and ASW. It will e the first of many activities to deter and reassure by HMS Queen Elizabeth and her sister.
The problem with all those commitments WEBF is how are you going to fill them with the ships available? An LPD (or even the Scott) is fine but not if the bad guys have any aircraft at all.............
6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
The problem with all those commitments WEBF is how are you going to fill them with the ships available? An LPD (or even the Scott) is fine but not if the bad guys have any aircraft at all.............
6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
Depends who they are and where they are Boffin - I just don't think that having most of the RN's most capable ships in 2 locations is very useful
Thread Starter
Why - where else are you going to put them? We currently have both Carrier Strike Group and Littoral Support Group deployed, and are carrying on with normal activities in the Gulf, as part of NATO, maintaining a presence in the Caribbean and the South Atlantic, and maintaining the deterrent. It is quite likely that CSG and LSG would be in the same threatre in a real conflict.
Warships have operated in groups for centuries. How would Nelson have got on if the fleet had been scattered and not concentrated?
I think that it is difficult to argue with the diagram of the aircraft defence zone, the medium range missile zone, and the point defence zone.
Similarly, against a submarine threat you would want multiple helicopters with dipping sonar - which is another carrier role.
Warships have operated in groups for centuries. How would Nelson have got on if the fleet had been scattered and not concentrated?
I think that it is difficult to argue with the diagram of the aircraft defence zone, the medium range missile zone, and the point defence zone.
Similarly, against a submarine threat you would want multiple helicopters with dipping sonar - which is another carrier role.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 10th Oct 2020 at 18:03.
In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?
Last edited by airsound; 23rd Sep 2020 at 19:54.
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In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
R08 HMS Queen Elizabeth is abbreviated to QNLZ
R09 HMS Prince of Wales is abbreviated to PWLS
In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....
airsound
PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?
Originally Posted by ;
Clever, a site that cannot be reached in praise of what appears to be a non person.
OK. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't posted! However, I believe Thin Pinstriped Line is worth reading, and I'm not sure why PPRuNe tries so hard to prevent you finding it. All I can suggest is that you search for it in your favourite search engine. Good luck!
airsound
airsound
Thread Starter
PPRuNe does not like b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t. Software quirk I believe.
On topic - HMS Queen Elizabeth is now contributing to British and NATO capabilities, deterring and reassuring. She is leading a NATO task group for Joint Warrior. It will be interesting to know the exercise scenario. Whilst hitting targets ashore may be part of it, the RN/RAF (617 Sqn is jointly manned, as 809 NAS will be when it comes along) and USMC F-35Bs will do be doing air defence (in fact they probably already have been during recent days in the North Sea). This will be in conjunction with the destroyers and their fighter controllers. The ASW Merlins will perform ASW in conjunction with the frigates (and their helicopters), the SSN that is part of the group, and MPA.
The line between exercise and operation is blurred due to the deterrent effect of exercises. The price of peace is eternal vigilance. Demonstrating the ability to achieve maritime and air superiority helps promote international stability.
On topic - HMS Queen Elizabeth is now contributing to British and NATO capabilities, deterring and reassuring. She is leading a NATO task group for Joint Warrior. It will be interesting to know the exercise scenario. Whilst hitting targets ashore may be part of it, the RN/RAF (617 Sqn is jointly manned, as 809 NAS will be when it comes along) and USMC F-35Bs will do be doing air defence (in fact they probably already have been during recent days in the North Sea). This will be in conjunction with the destroyers and their fighter controllers. The ASW Merlins will perform ASW in conjunction with the frigates (and their helicopters), the SSN that is part of the group, and MPA.
The line between exercise and operation is blurred due to the deterrent effect of exercises. The price of peace is eternal vigilance. Demonstrating the ability to achieve maritime and air superiority helps promote international stability.
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Now he's Fleet Commander both the grey ones are now Jerry's jin palaces. (Hat, coat, etc.)
PS Orac, welcome back from your exile.
PS Orac, welcome back from your exile.
Suspicion breeds confidence
I gave a lecture on QE2 in Dubai prior to lockdown. She has been lovingly restored and is in better condition than she was when I last sailed on her in 2008