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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Old 21st Sep 2020, 17:39
  #5981 (permalink)  
 
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UK led #5thGen Carrier Strike Group - you can see the problem - with 2 such groups most of the currently active surface warships are in only two places - you don't have much capacity to send to the ME, S China Sea, or anywhere else..........
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 17:58
  #5982 (permalink)  
 
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But we didnít have that capability, even before we got the new carriers.
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 18:27
  #5983 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
UK led #5thGen Carrier Strike Group - you can see the problem - with 2 such groups most of the currently active surface warships are in only two places - you don't have much capacity to send to the ME, S China Sea, or anywhere else..........
You might not have noticed the deployment of the Littoral Response Group (LPD, LSD(A), and a Type 45) to the Mediterranean and Black Sea, ongoing commitments to NATO, ongoing commitments to the Gulf and wider Middle East, Forward Presence, CASD....

In any case would would we want to send in a crisis? Yes, a task group.

Personally I consider that the GROUPEX is an operation activity - given the renewed strategic importance of the Atlantic and the need for things like AAW and ASW. It will e the first of many activities to deter and reassure by HMS Queen Elizabeth and her sister.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 15:10
  #5984 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with all those commitments WEBF is how are you going to fill them with the ships available? An LPD (or even the Scott) is fine but not if the bad guys have any aircraft at all.............

6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 16:09
  #5985 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
The problem with all those commitments WEBF is how are you going to fill them with the ships available? An LPD (or even the Scott) is fine but not if the bad guys have any aircraft at all.............

6 T45's - one laid up, one in refit and one working up after refit - that's 3 active and another shortly (hopefully available) - and each Carrier Group has 2 x T45's................. The rest of the RN has no advanced air cover
You do realise if the bad guys have aircraft, then a carrier is the first thing you want to bring?
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 17:47
  #5986 (permalink)  
 
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Depends who they are and where they are Boffin - I just don't think that having most of the RN's most capable ships in 2 locations is very useful
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 18:59
  #5987 (permalink)  
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Why - where else are you going to put them? We currently have both Carrier Strike Group and Littoral Support Group deployed, and are carrying on with normal activities in the Gulf, as part of NATO, maintaining a presence in the Caribbean and the South Atlantic, and maintaining the deterrent. It is quite likely that CSG and LSG would be in the same threatre in a real conflict.

Warships have operated in groups for centuries. How would Nelson have got on if the fleet had been scattered and not concentrated?

I think that it is difficult to argue with the diagram of the aircraft defence zone, the medium range missile zone, and the point defence zone.




Similarly, against a submarine threat you would want multiple helicopters with dipping sonar - which is another carrier role.

Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 10th Oct 2020 at 18:03.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 19:39
  #5988 (permalink)  

 
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In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....

airsound

PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?

Last edited by airsound; 23rd Sep 2020 at 19:54.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 00:16
  #5989 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsound View Post
In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....

airsound
QE2 was an ocean liner built in the late 60s. QEC (Queen Elizabeth Class/Carrier) is the accepted abbreviation as she is named for Good Queen Bess (Elizabeth I) not the current monarch.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:24
  #5990 (permalink)  

 
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Thank you Obi Wan. I should have realised that!

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Old 24th Sep 2020, 11:07
  #5991 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Obi Wan Russell View Post
QE2 was an ocean liner built in the late 60s. QEC (Queen Elizabeth Class/Carrier) is the accepted abbreviation as she is named for Good Queen Bess (Elizabeth I) not the current monarch.
Hate to nit-pick, but thatís not entirely correct. Queen Elizabeth Class (QE Class) refers to the class of ship, not one particular ship.
R08 HMS Queen Elizabeth is abbreviated to QNLZ
R09 HMS Prince of Wales is abbreviated to PWLS
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 21:01
  #5992 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by airsound View Post
In case there's anyone who hasn't come across Sir Humphrey and his Thin Pinstriped Line, here's an optimistic take on QE2's first venture out with a lot of F-35s on board.
https://thinpinstripedline.********....ching-out.html
You have to admit, he knows his stuff....

airsound

PS Just had a thought - WEBF isn't really Sir Humphrey in disguise, is he?
Clever, a site that cannot be reached in praise of what appears to be a non person.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 09:31
  #5993 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ;
Clever, a site that cannot be reached in praise of what appears to be a non person.
A perfectly reachable site - one just needs to know what to replace the asterisks with. I could tell you but then I'd have to...


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Old 25th Sep 2020, 16:46
  #5994 (permalink)  

 
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OK. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't posted! However, I believe Thin Pinstriped Line is worth reading, and I'm not sure why PPRuNe tries so hard to prevent you finding it. All I can suggest is that you search for it in your favourite search engine. Good luck!

airsound
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Old 5th Oct 2020, 17:42
  #5995 (permalink)  
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PPRuNe does not like b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t. Software quirk I believe.

On topic - HMS Queen Elizabeth is now contributing to British and NATO capabilities, deterring and reassuring. She is leading a NATO task group for Joint Warrior. It will be interesting to know the exercise scenario. Whilst hitting targets ashore may be part of it, the RN/RAF (617 Sqn is jointly manned, as 809 NAS will be when it comes along) and USMC F-35Bs will do be doing air defence (in fact they probably already have been during recent days in the North Sea). This will be in conjunction with the destroyers and their fighter controllers. The ASW Merlins will perform ASW in conjunction with the frigates (and their helicopters), the SSN that is part of the group, and MPA.

The line between exercise and operation is blurred due to the deterrent effect of exercises. The price of peace is eternal vigilance. Demonstrating the ability to achieve maritime and air superiority helps promote international stability.
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Old 5th Oct 2020, 21:27
  #5996 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
Hate to nit-pick, but thatís not entirely correct. Queen Elizabeth Class (QE Class) refers to the class of ship, not one particular ship.
R08 HMS Queen Elizabeth is abbreviated to QNLZ
R09 HMS Prince of Wales is abbreviated to PWLS
Fine so long as people stop referring to her as the QE2. She's a still extant ocean liner rusting away in Dubai...

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Old 6th Oct 2020, 10:53
  #5997 (permalink)  
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Thank you Obi Wan. I should have realised that! airsound
Is OK, easy to get floating gin palaces confused......
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 11:36
  #5998 (permalink)  
 
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Now he's Fleet Commander both the grey ones are now Jerry's jin palaces. (Hat, coat, etc.)

PS Orac, welcome back from your exile.
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Old 6th Oct 2020, 12:00
  #5999 (permalink)  
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I gave a lecture on QE2 in Dubai prior to lockdown. She has been lovingly restored and is in better condition than she was when I last sailed on her in 2008
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 09:35
  #6000 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WE Branch Fanatic View Post
PPRuNe does not like b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t. Software quirk I believe.

On topic - HMS Queen Elizabeth is now contributing to British and NATO capabilities, deterring and reassuring. She is leading a NATO task group for Joint Warrior. It will be interesting to know the exercise scenario. Whilst hitting targets ashore may be part of it, the RN/RAF (617 Sqn is jointly manned, as 809 NAS will be when it comes along) and USMC F-35Bs will do be doing air defence (in fact they probably already have been during recent days in the North Sea). This will be in conjunction with the destroyers and their fighter controllers. The ASW Merlins will perform ASW in conjunction with the frigates (and their helicopters), the SSN that is part of the group, and MPA.

The line between exercise and operation is blurred due to the deterrent effect of exercises. The price of peace is eternal vigilance. Demonstrating the ability to achieve maritime and air superiority helps promote international stability.
You missed out "world beating"
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