First Empowered Master post disappears.
A little short-sighted Ginge.
The fact that the system has promoted you (generic) means that you take on the extra responsibilities associated with the rank. If you don't want them, then don't accept the promotion etc etc.
However, as this empowerment has been adopted as the future of NCA, then why not exploit it to its full potential? Find the SO3 jobs you want, rattle a few cages and make sure you get them.
Or B, roll over and take it up the
!
The fact that the system has promoted you (generic) means that you take on the extra responsibilities associated with the rank. If you don't want them, then don't accept the promotion etc etc.
However, as this empowerment has been adopted as the future of NCA, then why not exploit it to its full potential? Find the SO3 jobs you want, rattle a few cages and make sure you get them.
Or B, roll over and take it up the
!
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If I'd wanted an SO3 job, I'd have gone to Cranditz (had the offer and turned it down(gnd Commission)) and done the course however, as I have chosen to remain NCA, I am happy with the prospect of being MACr and deputising for the Leader, and not happy about taking up their role full time for 10k less a year than they were getting
I'm perfectly happy and willing to be the Leader as MACr NCA and do the job, as long as I get the dosh. I don't need the pretty badges and waves to get off in the morning.
There are plenty of MACr who are more than capable of holding down the role of NCA Leader.
It's not short-sighted, it's a reluctance to being taken advantage of
Ginge
I'm perfectly happy and willing to be the Leader as MACr NCA and do the job, as long as I get the dosh. I don't need the pretty badges and waves to get off in the morning.
There are plenty of MACr who are more than capable of holding down the role of NCA Leader.
It's not short-sighted, it's a reluctance to being taken advantage of
Ginge
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Tourist: You should change your 'handle' to tool. I have NCA equipped with a degree and not one in philosophy or some other uni get-out clause either amongst the boys & girls who work on my sqn.
I know of a Sarboy NCA with a Law degree, and one with a degree in Aerodynamics that the RAF are leaning on to become and Eng O and he wishes to remain NCA.
So take your pathetic ramblings and put them where the sun dont shine, for if you are a peer, you make me ashamed.
I know of a Sarboy NCA with a Law degree, and one with a degree in Aerodynamics that the RAF are leaning on to become and Eng O and he wishes to remain NCA.
So take your pathetic ramblings and put them where the sun dont shine, for if you are a peer, you make me ashamed.
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Originally Posted by Admin_Guru
Tourist: I have NCA equipped with a degree and not one in philosophy or some other uni get-out clause either amongst the boys & girls who work on my sqn.
AVTUR:
So what is the chances of a Flt Lt getting to level 28? The reality, promoted into a job of greater responsibility or out of the service. So for doing the leaders job it would probably cost more long-term to employ MACR. Thoughts?
GINGE:
Sorry, how do you work out the system would take advantage of you for doing the Leaders job? Surely, like I said before, if you don't want to do it then don't accept the promotion and stay a Sgt. It is not a secret, the responsibilities and duties of a Sgt, FS and MACR/WO are all written down in QRs.
If you think the system would take advantage, compare your wage to a civvy company. How far up the tree would you have to go to get the equivalent? Then compare the responsibility and decide who is being taken advantage of.
So what is the chances of a Flt Lt getting to level 28? The reality, promoted into a job of greater responsibility or out of the service. So for doing the leaders job it would probably cost more long-term to employ MACR. Thoughts?
GINGE:
Sorry, how do you work out the system would take advantage of you for doing the Leaders job? Surely, like I said before, if you don't want to do it then don't accept the promotion and stay a Sgt. It is not a secret, the responsibilities and duties of a Sgt, FS and MACR/WO are all written down in QRs.
If you think the system would take advantage, compare your wage to a civvy company. How far up the tree would you have to go to get the equivalent? Then compare the responsibility and decide who is being taken advantage of.
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Could be,
tis a valid point however, my point is this- if the job is worth paying someone 62K/yr, then pay them for doing the job. If the MACr is up to it , then pay him, don't be cheap. I'm not MACr so it doesn't apply to me, I just don't like the penny pinching ways of the service when I've already witnessed the crass wastage of millions of pounds of tax payers dosh
GB
tis a valid point however, my point is this- if the job is worth paying someone 62K/yr, then pay them for doing the job. If the MACr is up to it , then pay him, don't be cheap. I'm not MACr so it doesn't apply to me, I just don't like the penny pinching ways of the service when I've already witnessed the crass wastage of millions of pounds of tax payers dosh
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These are all valid points, however, nobody has addressed the subject of future positions once an individual has completed an Empowered post. It was always taken as read that a section ldr would gradually spiral up the posts or rotate around the Sqns, (wilts). But where do you place a 41 year old MACR post empowerment? Is he supposed to then sit on the side lines on a new a/c type under the management of another up-and- coming young MACR. ?
Could be the last? My thoughts...
In the (unlikely?) event that a Rear Crew Flt Lt gets promoted, he will still remain at the same level on the PAS as PAS does not recognise Officers' rank. He can only progress up the PAS annually and if assimilated to age 55 could make level 28 at which he is capped.
All Rear Crew Officers (not Nav), irrespective of rank, can therefore only ever earn £393 net per month more than a Master who is eight levels below him on the 2006 pay scale, so employing a Flt Lt in an SO3 post will always, in the long-term, cost the Treasury £4716 pa more than a Master would.
The question is; given the additional responsibilities and grief for no financial gain, should a Rear Crew PAS Officer ever accept promotion?
In the (unlikely?) event that a Rear Crew Flt Lt gets promoted, he will still remain at the same level on the PAS as PAS does not recognise Officers' rank. He can only progress up the PAS annually and if assimilated to age 55 could make level 28 at which he is capped.
All Rear Crew Officers (not Nav), irrespective of rank, can therefore only ever earn £393 net per month more than a Master who is eight levels below him on the 2006 pay scale, so employing a Flt Lt in an SO3 post will always, in the long-term, cost the Treasury £4716 pa more than a Master would.
The question is; given the additional responsibilities and grief for no financial gain, should a Rear Crew PAS Officer ever accept promotion?
Spit:
You would probably post him into another empowered position just as Flt Lts were posted from one JO post to another.
With the Rear Crew Officer being phased-out, more and more JO/SO3 posts are likely to become available and will need to be filled by Masters willing to take on the responsibility. Perhaps raising the PAS cap by two levels or so for "Empowered Masters" would provide some encouragement?
The bottom line is, as with most recent changes, the concept was not fully analysed or thought-through before implimentation.
Incidently, I believe there is a Master who is running an RAF Careers Office, so these JO/SO3 posts are not necessarily limited to flying posts.
You would probably post him into another empowered position just as Flt Lts were posted from one JO post to another.
With the Rear Crew Officer being phased-out, more and more JO/SO3 posts are likely to become available and will need to be filled by Masters willing to take on the responsibility. Perhaps raising the PAS cap by two levels or so for "Empowered Masters" would provide some encouragement?
The bottom line is, as with most recent changes, the concept was not fully analysed or thought-through before implimentation.
Incidently, I believe there is a Master who is running an RAF Careers Office, so these JO/SO3 posts are not necessarily limited to flying posts.
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Avtur
You are quite correct about the Careers Office, with more to follow I hear!
Regarding the SO3 jobs you refer to, the majority of the empowered MACRs will be on the PAS, which as we know indicates an individual will only be employed in a 'Flying related position'. I can not see that there wil be enough posts to meet that criteria.
You are quite correct about the Careers Office, with more to follow I hear!
Regarding the SO3 jobs you refer to, the majority of the empowered MACRs will be on the PAS, which as we know indicates an individual will only be employed in a 'Flying related position'. I can not see that there wil be enough posts to meet that criteria.
The term "flying related" can be stretched quite considerably with some imagination: The CIO Master would be, amongst other things, responsible for recruiting Aircrew and is therefore a "flying related" post.
I am sure that this sort of imagination is already being used for Commissioned PAS Aircrew who have been posted away from flying duties.
By the way, do you know what a DW is? I'm longing to know!!
I am sure that this sort of imagination is already being used for Commissioned PAS Aircrew who have been posted away from flying duties.
By the way, do you know what a DW is? I'm longing to know!!
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First Empowered Master post disappears
Unfortunately, the NCA world is reaping the seed that has been sown by a minority of MACR and ill thought out policy. The minority who have reached the so called top of the tree and are unwilling to go that little bit further to look after the more junior of their brethren exist in every trade and branch and when there are weak SO3's who are happy to rest until their 55 or other exit point then nothing will change. The secret Oxford base has some excellent Commissioned ALM's and there are others, who I am told, have fought and been over-ruled.
I suggest that that the masses get behind them and propose a work around rather than accept it and do what the masters mafias have been doing for years.......winge. My condolences to the empowered master concerned, a good man and a bad situation just going to get worse.
as boris says - 'Tin Hat on!'
who have reached the so called top of the tree and are unwilling to go that little bit further to look after the more junior of their brethren exist in every trade and branch and when there are weak SO3's who are happy to rest until their 55 or other exit point then nothing will change. The secret Oxford base has some excellent Commissioned ALM's and there are others, who I am told, have fought and been over-ruled.I suggest that that the masses get behind them and propose a work around rather than accept it and do what the masters mafias have been doing for years.......winge. My condolences to the empowered master concerned, a good man and a bad situation just going to get worse.
as boris says - 'Tin Hat on!'