Forces Go Soft On Drugs
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forces Go Soft On Drugs
Today's Telegraph,Monday 27 February 2006.
Forces ease tough line on taking hard drugs
SERVICEMEN and women are no longer automatically dismissed if they use class A drugs, the MoD confirmed yesterday.
Where once they would have been thrown out immediately over the use of ecstacy or cocaine, they may now get a second chance if they agree to rehabilitation.
A spkesman stressed that drug misuse would not be tolerated but those who break the rules may be retained in "exceptional circumstances".
The MoD began an open ended trial of the policy in September 2003.
It was understood the military would still regard heroin much more seriously than recreational users of cocaine and ecstacy.
An MoD source told the Sunday Mirror, "We judge cases on individual merits. Apromising soldier may be given a second chance if they attend a rehabilitation course".
Does this mean that our Forces really are going to pot
This is a very bad move. Even Cannabis use should result in a stint inside and immediate discharge.
There is no room for drug abuse in the Forces, Cigarettes and Alcohol are bad enough.
The use of drugs (except prescribed), indicates a tremendous lack of self discipline and control.
I for one, don't wish to work with these people.
This is a serious subject and I hope, one that encourages lively debate.
Talk Wrench
Forces ease tough line on taking hard drugs
SERVICEMEN and women are no longer automatically dismissed if they use class A drugs, the MoD confirmed yesterday.
Where once they would have been thrown out immediately over the use of ecstacy or cocaine, they may now get a second chance if they agree to rehabilitation.
A spkesman stressed that drug misuse would not be tolerated but those who break the rules may be retained in "exceptional circumstances".
The MoD began an open ended trial of the policy in September 2003.
It was understood the military would still regard heroin much more seriously than recreational users of cocaine and ecstacy.
An MoD source told the Sunday Mirror, "We judge cases on individual merits. Apromising soldier may be given a second chance if they attend a rehabilitation course".
Does this mean that our Forces really are going to pot
This is a very bad move. Even Cannabis use should result in a stint inside and immediate discharge.
There is no room for drug abuse in the Forces, Cigarettes and Alcohol are bad enough.
The use of drugs (except prescribed), indicates a tremendous lack of self discipline and control.
I for one, don't wish to work with these people.
This is a serious subject and I hope, one that encourages lively debate.
Talk Wrench
TW
You say you don't wish to work with these people but the harsh reality is, you probably already do. Recreational drug use is part and parcel of todays lifestyle for an increasing number of people, especially 'professionals'. Personally, I have never seen the attraction, I prefer my drug in a pint glass thanks very much.
I would like to think this initiative is dsigned to not exclude those individuals who have dabbled in their youth, at school or university. Everyone is allowed one skeleton in their cupboard.
Lets face it, if they were to ban everyone who had been p*ssed a few times and thrown up on the carpet, there really would be a recruiting crisis. After all, alcohol is a mind altering drug that becomes an addiction to some. If it were invented to day, the Government would ban it.
As to abuse by those still serving. Each case should be taken on merit. It would be interesting to see the stats on alcohol consumption ant time off work or ineffective due to hangovers etc.
Use of drugs like heroin though should result in dismissal. As should alcoholism.
You say you don't wish to work with these people but the harsh reality is, you probably already do. Recreational drug use is part and parcel of todays lifestyle for an increasing number of people, especially 'professionals'. Personally, I have never seen the attraction, I prefer my drug in a pint glass thanks very much.
I would like to think this initiative is dsigned to not exclude those individuals who have dabbled in their youth, at school or university. Everyone is allowed one skeleton in their cupboard.
Lets face it, if they were to ban everyone who had been p*ssed a few times and thrown up on the carpet, there really would be a recruiting crisis. After all, alcohol is a mind altering drug that becomes an addiction to some. If it were invented to day, the Government would ban it.
As to abuse by those still serving. Each case should be taken on merit. It would be interesting to see the stats on alcohol consumption ant time off work or ineffective due to hangovers etc.
Use of drugs like heroin though should result in dismissal. As should alcoholism.
So not content with trying to do something about the exit of some of our brightest and best because of all that is wrong/going wrong with the military we are now content to try and keep those too stupid to realise that drugs are not acceptable/compatable with the military. What message does this send? It's OK to take drugs guys, as long as you are keen and thrusting (for which read we have a severe manpower shortage in your branch/trade) we wont throw you out!
The story is today's Telegraph as well but I can't find it on their website.
The lunatics really have taken over the asylum!
The story is today's Telegraph as well but I can't find it on their website.
The lunatics really have taken over the asylum!
Define Drug then!
Alcohol is a drug yet if you were to ban alcohol there would be uproar and it would probably have a bigger impact on recruiting and retention than any other single issue. Having spent 2 years accompanied in the Falklands, and 24 in the RAF, there is no doubt in my mnd that alcohol abuse is a very real problem in the forces, at all rank levels.
I am not trying to justify acceptance of drug usage BUT if we are going to have a zero tolerance regime, it has to be across the board. You can't just pick and choose.
This is similar to the time we stopped dismissing Homosexuals from the forces. I was at one of these useless EO training days and I remember a SNCO saying that he would resign if this was introduced because no way was he going to share facilities with gays. Nor would he work with them. It completely escaped his notice that he had been doing just that since the day he joined.
Like drugs, best to bring the issue out in the open and, in the case of this kind of activity, judge each situation on merit.
Alcohol is a drug yet if you were to ban alcohol there would be uproar and it would probably have a bigger impact on recruiting and retention than any other single issue. Having spent 2 years accompanied in the Falklands, and 24 in the RAF, there is no doubt in my mnd that alcohol abuse is a very real problem in the forces, at all rank levels.
I am not trying to justify acceptance of drug usage BUT if we are going to have a zero tolerance regime, it has to be across the board. You can't just pick and choose.
This is similar to the time we stopped dismissing Homosexuals from the forces. I was at one of these useless EO training days and I remember a SNCO saying that he would resign if this was introduced because no way was he going to share facilities with gays. Nor would he work with them. It completely escaped his notice that he had been doing just that since the day he joined.
Like drugs, best to bring the issue out in the open and, in the case of this kind of activity, judge each situation on merit.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wyler, the topic in question does not refer to homosexuality, nor does it encompass getting legless on a saturday night.
The issue is the softly softly approach to the MISUSE of class A and B HARD DRUGS by members of HM Forces. Whilst you admirably have many years of service,I urge you to get an up to date drugs briefing. The subject of hard drugs is an extremely serious matter within the Military and should not be underestimated. Would you like to have your safety jeopardised by someone who is as high as a kite? Not to mention the effect on sections, such as unreliability, possibility of theft from colleagues and so on. The individual may also be susceptible to blackmail, become a security risk etc.
No disrespect to yourself Wyler, but don't underestimate the danger that these substances pose.
Talk Wrench
The issue is the softly softly approach to the MISUSE of class A and B HARD DRUGS by members of HM Forces. Whilst you admirably have many years of service,I urge you to get an up to date drugs briefing. The subject of hard drugs is an extremely serious matter within the Military and should not be underestimated. Would you like to have your safety jeopardised by someone who is as high as a kite? Not to mention the effect on sections, such as unreliability, possibility of theft from colleagues and so on. The individual may also be susceptible to blackmail, become a security risk etc.
No disrespect to yourself Wyler, but don't underestimate the danger that these substances pose.
Talk Wrench
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lincs
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wyler,
I'd like to be sympathetic to your cause old man, however the fact remains that alchohol (whether we like it or not) is a LEGAL drug, and class A drugs are ILLEGAL. Now what is your argumant with that point?
We either have laws that we obey such as drug abuse, or we have laws that we can choose NOT to obey. That cannot be right. I am by no means an expert, however I remember very well my drugs lecture in the service where the nice man spouted on about 'flashbacks' and how they can occur much later on in time. If that is true, then I sure as hell wouldn't want someone who has been on drugs tinkering with my aircraft, or anything else comes to that.
I am not belittling the alcohol problem. If its as bad as you say then clearly something needs to be done, but for goodness sake, please do NOT let the 'goody goody' brigade get involved in allowing drug abusers second chances in the services. It is just too dangerous and MUST NOT be allowed to happen.
The rules should be clear and concise - IF YOU TAKE ILLEGAL DRUGS, OF ANY SORT, THEN YOU ARE OUT ON YOUR AR$E.
Rant over
Regards
TSM
I'd like to be sympathetic to your cause old man, however the fact remains that alchohol (whether we like it or not) is a LEGAL drug, and class A drugs are ILLEGAL. Now what is your argumant with that point?
We either have laws that we obey such as drug abuse, or we have laws that we can choose NOT to obey. That cannot be right. I am by no means an expert, however I remember very well my drugs lecture in the service where the nice man spouted on about 'flashbacks' and how they can occur much later on in time. If that is true, then I sure as hell wouldn't want someone who has been on drugs tinkering with my aircraft, or anything else comes to that.
I am not belittling the alcohol problem. If its as bad as you say then clearly something needs to be done, but for goodness sake, please do NOT let the 'goody goody' brigade get involved in allowing drug abusers second chances in the services. It is just too dangerous and MUST NOT be allowed to happen.
The rules should be clear and concise - IF YOU TAKE ILLEGAL DRUGS, OF ANY SORT, THEN YOU ARE OUT ON YOUR AR$E.
Rant over
Regards
TSM
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sverdlovsk
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DRUGS... No Way......
I cannot believe that our Lords and masters are about to dilute the current drugs misuse regulations, and adopt a softer approach!
Some time ago I received a briefing on the use (misuse) of drugs and more importantly, the problems associated with the knock-on effect, sometimes days, weeks, months after the drugs have been taken. A very sobering film depicted an aircraft turnround, where a drug enduced 'Flashback' during a vital part of the turnround service resulted in an indivdual missing an important check. The bottom line was the aircraft malfunctioned and crashed with the loss of both crew. Now, how relevant was this film....? Was it just scaremongering, or did it reflect a true perception of just one of the side effects of drugs. I certainly would not wish to climb into a cockpit not sure if the preflight of my a/c had been completed correctly.
The military work in teams..., and we all have to place our trust at sometime in others. A trust that from a flying perspective, must be total -lives depend on it!
I fully understand the pressures on the younger element, both commissioned and non-commissioned who, unlike ten or fifteen years ago, are now exposed to drugs almost every day, and see recreational drugs as 'part of the scene' and something that can't or won't harm them. This is a fallacy, and every airman, NCO, officer in todays military should have the strength and commitment to rise above the crowd and say NO..., I don't do drugs.
I also believe that the random drug sampling should continue, and in many cases, be stepped up. Where a test for unauthorized drugs proves positive, individuals should be immediately removed from their place of duty, and a thorough check of their past working activities reviewed.
As far as rehabiliation goes, I see no issue with the military having a centralised and coordinated approach to drugs rehabilitation. I would say however, that those found positive of taking drugs should be fast tracked out! There has been enough waste of time, money and manpower on numerous CMs, with civilian lawers collecting nice fat fees for accepting defending duties.
There is no room for drug users in yesterday's todays, or tomorrow's military. There should remain a Zero Tolerence policy throughout. If there is concern about drug taking on any military establishment, then increase the random tests, and get rid of those who test positive, and who clearly do not have strength of conviction, nor the ability to stand up and say NO.
From a standpoint slightly right field of Atilla the Hun!
Some time ago I received a briefing on the use (misuse) of drugs and more importantly, the problems associated with the knock-on effect, sometimes days, weeks, months after the drugs have been taken. A very sobering film depicted an aircraft turnround, where a drug enduced 'Flashback' during a vital part of the turnround service resulted in an indivdual missing an important check. The bottom line was the aircraft malfunctioned and crashed with the loss of both crew. Now, how relevant was this film....? Was it just scaremongering, or did it reflect a true perception of just one of the side effects of drugs. I certainly would not wish to climb into a cockpit not sure if the preflight of my a/c had been completed correctly.
The military work in teams..., and we all have to place our trust at sometime in others. A trust that from a flying perspective, must be total -lives depend on it!
I fully understand the pressures on the younger element, both commissioned and non-commissioned who, unlike ten or fifteen years ago, are now exposed to drugs almost every day, and see recreational drugs as 'part of the scene' and something that can't or won't harm them. This is a fallacy, and every airman, NCO, officer in todays military should have the strength and commitment to rise above the crowd and say NO..., I don't do drugs.
I also believe that the random drug sampling should continue, and in many cases, be stepped up. Where a test for unauthorized drugs proves positive, individuals should be immediately removed from their place of duty, and a thorough check of their past working activities reviewed.
As far as rehabiliation goes, I see no issue with the military having a centralised and coordinated approach to drugs rehabilitation. I would say however, that those found positive of taking drugs should be fast tracked out! There has been enough waste of time, money and manpower on numerous CMs, with civilian lawers collecting nice fat fees for accepting defending duties.
There is no room for drug users in yesterday's todays, or tomorrow's military. There should remain a Zero Tolerence policy throughout. If there is concern about drug taking on any military establishment, then increase the random tests, and get rid of those who test positive, and who clearly do not have strength of conviction, nor the ability to stand up and say NO.
From a standpoint slightly right field of Atilla the Hun!
Short Blunt Shock
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear.
Standby for the crackdown on the "evil and anti-social act" of drinking a pint on a Friday night, running in parallel with a relaxation of drugs policy. It's already happening with smoking - we will soon be in the ridiculous situation where you could be arrested for smoking a cigarette, but merely cautioned for toking on a joint! Whatever your views on smoking, that makes no sense.
Inverted morality is a marker of a facist state - Hitler, after all, was an animal rights advocate.
Standby for the crackdown on the "evil and anti-social act" of drinking a pint on a Friday night, running in parallel with a relaxation of drugs policy. It's already happening with smoking - we will soon be in the ridiculous situation where you could be arrested for smoking a cigarette, but merely cautioned for toking on a joint! Whatever your views on smoking, that makes no sense.
Inverted morality is a marker of a facist state - Hitler, after all, was an animal rights advocate.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in my combat underpants
Age: 53
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I read on a news website, you only get this 'soft' touch if you're Lance Jack or below (across all 3 Services). Can someone correct me on that?
Also - please get away from DRUG abuse and realise that it is SUBSTANCE abuse. This includes solvent abuse, gas sniffing and certainly brings alcohol into the equation. If you get 'off yer face' on anything, you are a risk - and people in all those classes have been found in the Forces.
I happen to believe that we have the correct methods of dealing with miscreants ie no drugs. However, you have to accept that some people will not be quite as grown up and mature as we'd like before they join up. This is giving them the ability to make a single mistake very early on - something I have to begrudgingly support. Some 'late developers' turn into the very best that we need.
Also - please get away from DRUG abuse and realise that it is SUBSTANCE abuse. This includes solvent abuse, gas sniffing and certainly brings alcohol into the equation. If you get 'off yer face' on anything, you are a risk - and people in all those classes have been found in the Forces.
I happen to believe that we have the correct methods of dealing with miscreants ie no drugs. However, you have to accept that some people will not be quite as grown up and mature as we'd like before they join up. This is giving them the ability to make a single mistake very early on - something I have to begrudgingly support. Some 'late developers' turn into the very best that we need.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If anyone thinks that the use of illegal drugs can be recreational or 'harmless', have a chat with your local MO [especially if he has had outside GP experience]. It does not take much to mind-alter to the point where individuals can develop serious psychiatric conditions. And very often they manifest themselves over a very short period of time, where it might not be picked up until the individual has harmed himself or does something catastrophic, like commit a serious servicing error.
Latterly, and after 30-odd years of service, I resented being drug-tested, until I realised that it was the only way to weed out the drug-takers. Then I tolerated the intrusion. As far as I am concerned, the present policy if slinging out the drug users is absolutely right - high as a kite and carrying a loaded weapon? Servicing an aircraft?
Roland was absolutely right - the lunatics really have taken over...
Latterly, and after 30-odd years of service, I resented being drug-tested, until I realised that it was the only way to weed out the drug-takers. Then I tolerated the intrusion. As far as I am concerned, the present policy if slinging out the drug users is absolutely right - high as a kite and carrying a loaded weapon? Servicing an aircraft?
Roland was absolutely right - the lunatics really have taken over...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FJJP,
You are most correct when you state that psychiatric conditions can manifest themselves in a short period of time (e.g psychosis, bipolar disorders, psyhotic episodes etc)
I am reliably informed by an aquaintance in military psychiatry, that it is presumed that some kind of drug misuse is suspected in 90% of their referrals.
Putting things into perspective though,
How many times have we all been to the SMC and been given advice at the dispensary about the side effects of the prescriptions we have been issued. (may cause drowsiness, that sort of thing) I have been signed off work because the painkillers I have been prescribed were so powerful that the MO knew my work would be affected.
Prescribed, trialled and monitored medication is one thing, illegal drugs is another and must not be tolerated in any way, shape or form.
CDT is a good thing and hopefully will get rid of the foolish ones who wish to partake
.
Talk Wrench
You are most correct when you state that psychiatric conditions can manifest themselves in a short period of time (e.g psychosis, bipolar disorders, psyhotic episodes etc)
I am reliably informed by an aquaintance in military psychiatry, that it is presumed that some kind of drug misuse is suspected in 90% of their referrals.
Putting things into perspective though,
How many times have we all been to the SMC and been given advice at the dispensary about the side effects of the prescriptions we have been issued. (may cause drowsiness, that sort of thing) I have been signed off work because the painkillers I have been prescribed were so powerful that the MO knew my work would be affected.
Prescribed, trialled and monitored medication is one thing, illegal drugs is another and must not be tolerated in any way, shape or form.
CDT is a good thing and hopefully will get rid of the foolish ones who wish to partake
.
Talk Wrench
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lincs
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ghengis,
I seem to recall a story a few years ago when the RN almost lost a submarine when the 'driver' (is it the planesman?) had one of these flashbacks. Apparantly it was some considerable time after he had taken the illegal substance, but nevertheless he had one. I understand that he put the sub in a very steep nose dive. It was only after a few 'biggish' sailors managed to pull him off the steering wheel that the sub recovered.
Whatever, this must NOT be allowed to happen. If there is one thing that the services still (appear) to ahve a strong handle on, its substance misuse. I pray it stays.
Kind regards
TSM
I seem to recall a story a few years ago when the RN almost lost a submarine when the 'driver' (is it the planesman?) had one of these flashbacks. Apparantly it was some considerable time after he had taken the illegal substance, but nevertheless he had one. I understand that he put the sub in a very steep nose dive. It was only after a few 'biggish' sailors managed to pull him off the steering wheel that the sub recovered.
Whatever, this must NOT be allowed to happen. If there is one thing that the services still (appear) to ahve a strong handle on, its substance misuse. I pray it stays.
Kind regards
TSM
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Originally Posted by Talk Wrench
....Would you like to have your safety jeopardised by someone who is as high as a kite? Not to mention the effect on sections, such as unreliability, possibility of theft from colleagues and so on. The individual may also be susceptible to blackmail, become a security risk etc.
No disrespect to yourself Wyler, but don't underestimate the danger that these substances pose.
Talk Wrench
No disrespect to yourself Wyler, but don't underestimate the danger that these substances pose.
Talk Wrench
How many pilots do you think have walked out to their a/c the day after a heavy night before?
How many people do you notice stinking of stale booze in your section on a Friday morning? Are you happy for them to work on an a/c or do you send them back to their room to sleep it off?
Pure hypocrisy.
Having worked with both people who were recreational drug users and also people who were heavy drinkers I know which I'd rather be working with. The 'but its illegal' comment is complete Daily Mail trash. Do you honestly think if alcohol were discovered tomorrow it would be legal? Its about time the government did the only sensible thing it can do about the whole 'drug problem' and legalised drugs. A legalised product can be controlled and more importantly, taxed. Those taxes could then be used to treat the comparatively few people who are weak enough to develop an addiction, the same as with alcohol abusers.
In six years of performing volunteer drugs work and counselling at clubs around the country in my spare time I can count the number of users I've met who were abusers on the fingers of one hand.
As someone has already mentioned, drugs are now very much a part of modern culture and the people who use them are not all heroin addicts who lie in alleys in a comatose state. Many recreational users are valued and productive members of society, just like those of us who have an occasional 'sesh' in the bar on a Thursday night but know when to stop. Unfortunately for those of you who still live in the 70's we can not go back in time to recruit nice young binge drinking guys with RAF 'tashes and thankfully someone with scrambled egg on their hat is finally realising this.
Now I am fully expecting to be flamed to hell for my views, no doubt being accused of being a 'lefty' or some such but hey ho.
At the target in front in your own time, go on.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Middle Drawer
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stacks, I don't think it would acceptable for anyone to slate you for carrying out voluntary work,
However,
If drugs aren't a problem, then why the need for drugs work and counselling?
And yes, you can argue the same case against alcohol.
Talk Wrench
However,
In six years of performing volunteer drugs work and counselling at clubs around the country
And yes, you can argue the same case against alcohol.
Talk Wrench
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Originally Posted by Talk Wrench
Stacks, I don't think it would acceptable for anyone to slate you for carrying out voluntary work,
However,
If drugs aren't a problem, then why the need for drugs work and counselling?
And yes, you can argue the same case against alcohol.
Talk Wrench
However,
If drugs aren't a problem, then why the need for drugs work and counselling?
And yes, you can argue the same case against alcohol.
Talk Wrench
The counselling is more a case of "make sure you drink the correct amount of water" than "drugs are bad, m'kay".
You will never stop people doing things which are illegal, I defy anyone to tell me there wasn't a secret little buzz to drinking cider down the recreation ground when you were 16 that was lost when you 'turned legal'. The problem with drugs though is more of "does it really need to be illegal?"
Like alcohol there are many different forms of drugs from the relatively mundane (cannabis) through to smack and crack. People often say that one leads to the other but this is on the whole complete rubbish, put around by a press fed on a diet of Leia Betts pictures (not playing down her tragic death but the Ecstasy wasn't the sole reason she died). As I've already said many people enjoy productive and 'normal' lives whilst at the same time enjoying a small amount of recreational drug use of a weekend. Yes you get addicts but these people normally have quite addictive personalities anyway and if it weren't drugs they were killing themselves it'd be nice, legal alcohol.
Of course the question everyone is clamouring over is whether drugs and the forces are compatible? Alcohol obviously isn't as otherwise we wouldn't require 'two can rules' in deployed locations. "But thats because its an operational area" I hear you all cry, but if that so why not introduce a zero tolerance to drugs whilst deployed policy (enforced by CDT's prior to entering theatre) and a less stringent policy in the UK.
All the current policy does is play into the stereotype put about by the right-wing press of all 'druggies' working their way towards a cardboard box underneath Waterloo Bridge whereas this couldn't be much further from the truth.
The lunatics really have taken over the asylum!
The lunatics really have really taken over the asylum!
Duggies are druggies... zero tolerance end of.
Glad im out!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Originally Posted by Skeleton
The lunatics really have really taken over the asylum!
Duggies are druggies... zero tolerance end of.
Glad im out!
As I said before, the whole thing is complete hypocrisy. Drinking yourself stupid in the rugby club then playing with a spanner the next morning = good drills lad. Smoking a joint on Saturday night then turning up to work fresh faced on Monday = the devils spawn, burn him....
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with totally with Helpful stacker here. In the Armed Forces we positively encourage drinking. Our social lifes are governed by alcohol, we build our living spaces around a bar, the biggest and best of us are the ones who can drink the most in the least time. And yet when it comes to other sunbstances we shy away from them (mainly because we know little of them) and ban them. I think this relaxing of the rules is a good thing. As already stated, those of you who think that they are working (and flying) next to someone who doesn't take drugs are mistaken. But all things in moderation and (as with alcohol) if you abuse the substance and dont conform with corrective training to stop your substance abuse then you should be shown the door.
Short Blunt Shock
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helpful Stacker,
I seriously do hope you are no longer a member of the Forces (or never were) with an attitude like that. You are most certainly a lefty stereotype (your 'Daily Mail' jibe shows that) displaying all the fundamentally flawed reasoning typical of your breed.
You cannot compare alcohol and other drugs. Alcohol is NOT a narcotic drug that alters your perception of reality. It supresses the transmission of nerve impulses to the brain across the synapses (gaps between nerve cells) - it does not alter what the messages are saying (unlike illegal narcotics). To compare use of illegal drugs with use of alcohol is to compare apples with oranges.
Once alcohol is out of your system, it's effects are over. This is NOT the case with most illegal narcotics which can cause long term or even permanent alterations to your brain chemistry, even in small or irregular amounts. Whilst it is true that alcohol will also damage the body, it requires frequent and long-term over-indulgence to do so.
Doubtless you will attempt to point out the widespread problems caused by alcohol consumption, and trumpet the supposed lower incidence of illegal drug-related problems. Again, a specious argument. Virtually every adult in the Western world consumes alcohol to one degree or another, which is bound to lead to a statistically greater incidence of alcohol-related problems, whereas only a tiny proportion of adults use illegal drugs, and these are mostly to be found in two distinct groups - young urban professionals (the trendy fabled 'Notting Hill set' being a perfect example) and worthless council estate chavs. I have moved in both those circles, so I am not exercising blind prejudice here.
The point is, alcohol is part of our culture, and has been for centuries. Illegal drugs have only been in widespread use for a relatively short period of time, and have caused devastation. THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
Alcohol is safe when not over-used, its effects are short-lived and predictable. Drugs have unpredictable and long-term effects.
There is a REASON why they are illegal.
How utterly, sadly predictable, Southside.
THS, when the resident prize bell-end comes out in support of you, it's time to hang your head in shame.....
16B
I seriously do hope you are no longer a member of the Forces (or never were) with an attitude like that. You are most certainly a lefty stereotype (your 'Daily Mail' jibe shows that) displaying all the fundamentally flawed reasoning typical of your breed.
You cannot compare alcohol and other drugs. Alcohol is NOT a narcotic drug that alters your perception of reality. It supresses the transmission of nerve impulses to the brain across the synapses (gaps between nerve cells) - it does not alter what the messages are saying (unlike illegal narcotics). To compare use of illegal drugs with use of alcohol is to compare apples with oranges.
Once alcohol is out of your system, it's effects are over. This is NOT the case with most illegal narcotics which can cause long term or even permanent alterations to your brain chemistry, even in small or irregular amounts. Whilst it is true that alcohol will also damage the body, it requires frequent and long-term over-indulgence to do so.
Doubtless you will attempt to point out the widespread problems caused by alcohol consumption, and trumpet the supposed lower incidence of illegal drug-related problems. Again, a specious argument. Virtually every adult in the Western world consumes alcohol to one degree or another, which is bound to lead to a statistically greater incidence of alcohol-related problems, whereas only a tiny proportion of adults use illegal drugs, and these are mostly to be found in two distinct groups - young urban professionals (the trendy fabled 'Notting Hill set' being a perfect example) and worthless council estate chavs. I have moved in both those circles, so I am not exercising blind prejudice here.
The point is, alcohol is part of our culture, and has been for centuries. Illegal drugs have only been in widespread use for a relatively short period of time, and have caused devastation. THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
Alcohol is safe when not over-used, its effects are short-lived and predictable. Drugs have unpredictable and long-term effects.
There is a REASON why they are illegal.
I agree with totally with Helpful stacker here.
THS, when the resident prize bell-end comes out in support of you, it's time to hang your head in shame.....
16B