JPA - What will it do for you?

[rej]

When the line manager is away, he/she will set the system up so that the acting line manager will get the 'document'. From what I was told, if there is no response within 3 days it goes up the chain by one, after another 3 days it goes up the chain again and so on. I suppose CAS will end up being pretty busy then

[lippiatt]

Not a good start though is it. The online internet training portal has crashed already, thus forcing everyone to scramble for the spare SAMA / DII machines to do the compulsory e-learning. Plan is apparantly for JPA to be available via internet eventually.

[Stop Start]

What fun the e-learning package is! Having logged on last week before it all crashed, I and several others discovered that our Personal Details page info was mostly incorrect (wrong DOB etc). A quick phone to the helpdesk revealed that I was not the only one. Imagine my surprise!! Most of the errors were DOB and email address related. The helpdesk then explained how she had just taken a phone call from someone who was born in 1902, and was still serving! Talk about extension of service!

Roll on the 20th! I suggest we all brace ourselves and warn the bank in time for payday!

SS

[Wrathmonk]

As I understand it the pay roll goes to the banks on the 14th of the month ie March pay will be under the current system. The 20th was deliberatly chosen for going live to give what remains of Admin branch a chance to correct the errors in the database before the pay run goes out on 14th April.

No I'm not a paid up supporter of Admin branch, it was just the only bit of the brief I listened to before falling asleep!

Give it a chance - the baseline software (Oracle?) is used by many big companies out in the real world (BA included I believe!) and you don't see many gripes from them. True, the military have adapted it slightly to take into account the "oddities" of military lifestyle ...

At the end of the day if you have control over your day to day life regarding pay / allowances / leave etc it has to be a good thing. The majority of posters here on pprune bleat about handbrake house - from March 20th (hopefully!) the only person to blame if your allowances are fecked up will be yourself.

And a 5% odds of having to provide evidence of a claim are far better than the current 100% evidence (as a certain Capt RN knows to his cost!).

[southside]

Im surprised that none of you are picking up on the cost of JPA. How much does it cost to administer your leave at the moment?


well, for me it costs....whatever the price of an A4 bit of paper is.

So, why change an A4 bit of paper which is

1) handy in my top draw.

2) easily fill inable and

3) bloomin cheap as chips....


for JPA ,......why?

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

Southsh*te

...the bit of photocopied paper in your top drawer is more expensive than an on-line form on a computer that is switched on anyway and does not count the cost of the mail room staff sorting it and giving it to the mailman who gives it to the Adj to stick it in your mail tray....

Go build an airfix kit or something...

RTM
'J' Bloke

[southside]

how much did it cost to design that online computer form which then has to be sent to the mail office via the adjutant etc etc....


any guesses?

who much did it cost to design the blank piece of paper which sits in my top drawer until the next year when I put that one in the bin and then start a new one.

we can go on like this fella but I'll win. Because I can nip into WH Smiths and buy a pack of 200 for less than a fiver. That will keep me in leave chits for the next 200 years for less than 5 Quid. Will JPA still be going in 200 for tless than 5 quid?

[Kev Nurse]

Leave admin is only one small aspect of JPA and its probably not worth discussing to any great depth at this stage, but the issue about application forms becoming redundant does merit a comment. The JPA computer's role, regarding leave, is to simply administer it. It doesn't give anyone permission to take leave. It assumes that individuals of SNCO, or higher rank, are either in charge of their destiny or have already spoken to their colleagues and/or Flt Cdrs. IMHO a busy Flt Cdr on a FL sqn with many SNCOs and officers will be within his rights to insist that written details of leave (auth'd absence) for his approval, or that have been approved by him, will continue. He might devise some sort of wall chart/excel spreadsheet as a howgozit, but ultimately he will probably want the individual to present a package of info (name, dates, etc) on some kind of media (paper or e-mail) as a reference to aid the personnel planning process. We have a form for that......

[Safety_Helmut]

£4.20 for lunch then, so what McDonalds value meal will YOU choose ?

Capped f@cking actuals !

S_H

[Ginseng]

Safety Helmut

You may think you're joking, but the capped actual lunch rate has been set by reference to the average UK price for a "Fast Food Outlet", and is intended to cover "Up to TWO courses AND a drink". (I quote from JSP 752 in both cases). Now, you probably thought that it would be Service policy in these days of the AFT and the Over-weight police to discourage service men and women from extisting on greasy burger, chips and Coke. Apparently not.

Regards

Ginseng

[Safety_Helmut]

Two course, that'll be Burger AND Chips then ?

S_H

[Ginseng]

S_H

Just don't forget to get Line Management and budgetary written or verbal authority before ordering your burger and fries (JSP 752 03.0116). Oh, and keep the receipt! Ah but you won't need a receipt, will you, because it will cost less than £5 (03.0171), even though you will for your incidental expenses such as your daily newspaper (03.0113). But then again, perhaps not, because it cross refers to 03.0171. As for expenses over £5, you need a receipt, unless one cannot reasonably be obtained, in which case you should keep a personally signed statement itemising your expenditure with your claim (03.0171)! I think there are going to be a lot of people who suddenly find it just wasn't reasonably possible to obtain a receipt. And what actually constitutes a valid receipt anyway, for the purposes of the audit? (the JSP has nothing very helpful to say on that subject).

Gawd help us!

Regards

Ginseng

[Biggus]

southside

On 1st Mar, entry 39, you said reference JPA "....lets give it a fair crack...", and now on 3rd Mar, entries 45 and 47, you are criticising it? Are you envoking your womens perogative to change your mind, playing devils advocate to get a rise, or just being an ar*se as usual?



What I object to, as is too often the case these days, is bringing something into service before it is ready, just to make the target date and avoid a red face for some senior neddie who might have to explain why it is running late. If I remember correctly pay 2000 finally happened in 2001 thanks to too ambitious a target date. How about we get some more realistic estimates of the time neccessary to achieve such changes. Working out a reasonable figure and doubling it would be a good start.

Alternatively, put it out to a civy IT firm, with a penalty clause (tied to the system being 'fully operational' from day one on line) so they are paying the MoD for any delays.

In the military we put up with a lot, but you mess with people's pay and leave at your peril - and JPA, if they don't get it right from day one, threatens to do both!!

[opso]

the capped actual lunch rate has been set by reference to the average UK price for a "Fast Food Outlet", and is intended to cover "Up to TWO courses AND a drink". (I quote from JSP 752 in both cases).

Whilst we have arguably seen a decline in Mess standards over the past decade (certainly over the past 2 decades), they certainly have not reached the level of McD or similar junk food outlets. So what has happened to the equivalency aspect of allowances - has this also bitten the dust with JPA?

Are there different rates of capped actuals for London?

Sorry for the questions, but both of our briefings here were massively oversubscribed (apparently, they didn't realise that so many people would be interested in JPA!) that I couldn't get in the room for either one.

[Ginseng]

opso

I am not aware of any different rates rates for the capped actuals meals allowances within Day or Night Subsistence for the London area, although there are special circumstances in which Watchkeepers working in HQs, including those in London, may claim elements of subsistence which would not normally be payable. The actuals rates for other countries will be set by monthly Directed Letter from the policy staff, as before, and will vary from the UK rates.

I haven't yet found anything in JSP 752 which even mentions the concept of "equivalence", but I'll keep looking.

Regards

Ginseng

[Wrathmonk]

Biggus

The software for JPA is COTS (commercial off the shelf) and is used by many leading corporations (who have more employees than us) such as Lloyds Bank, BA, Sanisburys etc.

South****e

If it was only an A4 piece of paper. Don't forget to include the numerous clerks (leading writers?) and associated hangers on who have to approve each and every claim (apart from those of Wg Cdr / Cdr / Lt Col and above I believe). Then there is the 3 day claim to payment of JPA versus the 7 weeks claim to payment where I currently reside.

FFS give it a chance!

[SirToppamHat]

It's Not Ready Yet - Army and RN Delay!

I have it on VERY good authority that the Army and RN have seen sense and delayed significantly their planned 'roll-out' of JPA (apparently it was confirmed yesterday!).

Biggus is spot on with his statement about bringing into service something which is simply not ready yet. OK, we've had a couple of briefs and been given log-ons and passwords, but I've not met anyone yet (including those from Innsworth who are briefing it) who has managed to get into the trg package (though one or 2 on here seem to have managed it). As Biggus suggests, there are too many elements of this that will be 'introduced at a later date'.

SAMA is being switched-off on Monday (6 Mar 06), but they are 'hoping' to have read-access for another week or so, so I imagine there'll be some heroic printing out in PSFs across the country!

STH

[16 blades]

So, does all the 'automation' of JPA mean we can sack a whole bunch of adminers, freeing up more money for the front line (where it belongs)?

....don't bet on it!

16B

[Grimweasel]

RN and Army have been delayed due to lack of Infrastructre (DII) NOT JPA issues. The RAF was seen as the best candidate for initial roll out due to it having better networks etc in place. SAMA will be turned off as an application but JPA will still piggyback off the SAMA network.
Oracle HRMS is the COTS package being used and from a self service point of view is very good. The HR (PSF) staff will take a little longer to get used to but in two years time we will be wondering what all the fuss was about!!
Those who need better info pm me and I shall try to find out as I'm in the hub of it all (for my sins!!)

[16 blades]

JPA will still piggyback off the SAMA network.

It will sit, as a distributed application, on the same RESTRICTED LDCN as every other distributed application (except RCHOTS, which curiously has it's own dedicated WAN in most places). I only hope that the available bandwidth will cope with a system that EVERYBODY in the Armed Forces will need to access.

Top tip - EVERYBODY try to put leave in at the same time, and watch it crash. Next Christmas will be interesting...

16B