Air Eng Branch
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Cornishpixie et al
Then I wish you the most best of luck! I was fortunate to spend some time there on a couple of Ex Pitch Blacks. Splendid place and people. I recently looked into going over there in my new job but alas despite chronic shortages of those who do what I do now the Aus Government has yet to make it a sponsored occupation. And I am pushing the upper age limit now..
Please keep us informed as to your progress by PM if you so wish.
Best regards
TG
Then I wish you the most best of luck! I was fortunate to spend some time there on a couple of Ex Pitch Blacks. Splendid place and people. I recently looked into going over there in my new job but alas despite chronic shortages of those who do what I do now the Aus Government has yet to make it a sponsored occupation. And I am pushing the upper age limit now..
Please keep us informed as to your progress by PM if you so wish.
Best regards
TG
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Originally Posted by The Gorilla
Cornishpixie et al
Then I wish you the most best of luck! I was fortunate to spend some time there on a couple of Ex Pitch Blacks. Splendid place and people. I recently looked into going over there in my new job but alas despite chronic shortages of those who do what I do now the Aus Government has yet to make it a sponsored occupation. And I am pushing the upper age limit now..
Please keep us informed as to your progress by PM if you so wish.
Best regards
TG
Then I wish you the most best of luck! I was fortunate to spend some time there on a couple of Ex Pitch Blacks. Splendid place and people. I recently looked into going over there in my new job but alas despite chronic shortages of those who do what I do now the Aus Government has yet to make it a sponsored occupation. And I am pushing the upper age limit now..
Please keep us informed as to your progress by PM if you so wish.
Best regards
TG
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Another way to go ?
Fantaman It would seem that you have the wish to fly and NCA is a very good way to go about this, I have worked with guys who have been trained by this system and they are to a man first class operators but the big problem for them all is what do they do after they finish with the RAF or with the way this goverment is going the RAF finishes with them.
If the chance of NCA lands at your feet then take it because it will teach you what you can't learn from books, airmanship and practical aircraft operation.
The NCA training will set you up to take the next step to set you up for life after the RAF............ Flying for the airlines !The RAF has a number of first class flying flying clubs and you can take advantage of the very cheap rates to get a Private pilots licence and the 150 hours flying time that you would need to start the (F)ATPL course.
I would take a guess that you could put your self in the right hand seat of an airliner for about 25% less cost than a civilian and your military background will be of great help when it comes to looking for a job.
If the chance of NCA lands at your feet then take it because it will teach you what you can't learn from books, airmanship and practical aircraft operation.
The NCA training will set you up to take the next step to set you up for life after the RAF............ Flying for the airlines !The RAF has a number of first class flying flying clubs and you can take advantage of the very cheap rates to get a Private pilots licence and the 150 hours flying time that you would need to start the (F)ATPL course.
I would take a guess that you could put your self in the right hand seat of an airliner for about 25% less cost than a civilian and your military background will be of great help when it comes to looking for a job.
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Thanks to everyone for their advice! I've been rather fortunate as a JNCO in that as part of my preparations for going aircrew I've managed to do a bit flying and spend some time with the NCA on a few squadrons.
Sitting around with the crews and chewing the fat was great and I got lots of helpful tips. Just looking at the way they went around their daily grind was fantastic and I think if more junior ranks got the chance to see the other side of the fence more would apply for NCA.
I collected my gen app from P1 today so fingers crossed and cheers
Sitting around with the crews and chewing the fat was great and I got lots of helpful tips. Just looking at the way they went around their daily grind was fantastic and I think if more junior ranks got the chance to see the other side of the fence more would apply for NCA.
I collected my gen app from P1 today so fingers crossed and cheers
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Fantaman Having already trodden your chosen route and despite all that has been discussed the only regret I have is that I did not go Aircrew earlier. Good luck fella see you around the bazaars soon CP
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You only live once.
I don't now if i'm reading this post right, but if you want to be a pilot and the RAF can`t offer you a post then leave now! No matter how old you are time is not on your side.
After failing OATC and considering NCA I went from J/T (with PPL) to Civ Jet Cpt in 8 Years largely on the advice of a wise Gp Capt (Stn Cmdr) who suggested that the RAF were not the only people that fly aircraft for a living. "If you want to be a pilot, why become a flight engineer?" There wasn`t a lot of RAF aircrew recruiting going on at the time and I stood no chance, especially as the board correctly determined I had no desire or aptitude to fly fast jets.
If your goal is NCA irrespective of flavour ignore the above...
After failing OATC and considering NCA I went from J/T (with PPL) to Civ Jet Cpt in 8 Years largely on the advice of a wise Gp Capt (Stn Cmdr) who suggested that the RAF were not the only people that fly aircraft for a living. "If you want to be a pilot, why become a flight engineer?" There wasn`t a lot of RAF aircrew recruiting going on at the time and I stood no chance, especially as the board correctly determined I had no desire or aptitude to fly fast jets.
If your goal is NCA irrespective of flavour ignore the above...
Cornishpixie, whats the requirements for joining the aussies......especially the age limit.......the Kiwis are not looking for anyone at the moment so thats out for me here......last flew the Herc 10 years ago!!!!!!!
Cyclic, glad you were impressed with the sim.....it took many hours to get it right in Aylesbury and an awful lot of rate ones to make it worthwhile.....hope they find a good home for it, the pilots just loved the FD system that we had fitted in it!!!!!!
Cyclic, glad you were impressed with the sim.....it took many hours to get it right in Aylesbury and an awful lot of rate ones to make it worthwhile.....hope they find a good home for it, the pilots just loved the FD system that we had fitted in it!!!!!!
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Little dudes
If you are thinking of heading down under PM me for any help I can be. Transferred about 3 yrs ago and whilst I am not grumpy enough to be an engineer I work very closely with them. You know starting their tomatoes for them and mopping the floor after an accident with the bag, but more importantly waking them up so we can go to the next strip show .
Charlie Sends
If you are thinking of heading down under PM me for any help I can be. Transferred about 3 yrs ago and whilst I am not grumpy enough to be an engineer I work very closely with them. You know starting their tomatoes for them and mopping the floor after an accident with the bag, but more importantly waking them up so we can go to the next strip show
.Charlie Sends
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Originally Posted by fergineer
Cornishpixie, whats the requirements for joining the aussies......especially the age limit.......the Kiwis are not looking for anyone at the moment so thats out for me here......last flew the Herc 10 years ago!!!!!!!
Cyclic, glad you were impressed with the sim.....it took many hours to get it right in Aylesbury and an awful lot of rate ones to make it worthwhile.....hope they find a good home for it, the pilots just loved the FD system that we had fitted in it!!!!!!
Cyclic, glad you were impressed with the sim.....it took many hours to get it right in Aylesbury and an awful lot of rate ones to make it worthwhile.....hope they find a good home for it, the pilots just loved the FD system that we had fitted in it!!!!!!
Fantaman,
Don't hold your breath too long but,
Guess what happened at Innsworth last week, 3* walked into PMA33c and asked: "These Air Engineers fellows", when do we stop training them?
Reasoning follows:
Tristar 2015
VC10 2014-5
C130k 2012-15
Nimrod R1 2035
E3D 2050
Guess what OC 55 Sqn has been asked?
As an ex air eng, my advice to you would be to go NCA ASAP, then ask for air eng as soon as you are well established in the basics phase of training.
Worst thing that can happen is that you end up in one of the other trades which are just as rewarding, whilst pocketing the extra dosh. Then when you get the chance re-train as air eng. It’s not even a re-branch once you’re in the system, as we are all one trade now.
you aint seen me right
Don't hold your breath too long but,
Guess what happened at Innsworth last week, 3* walked into PMA33c and asked: "These Air Engineers fellows", when do we stop training them?
Reasoning follows:
Tristar 2015
VC10 2014-5
C130k 2012-15
Nimrod R1 2035
E3D 2050
Guess what OC 55 Sqn has been asked?
As an ex air eng, my advice to you would be to go NCA ASAP, then ask for air eng as soon as you are well established in the basics phase of training.
Worst thing that can happen is that you end up in one of the other trades which are just as rewarding, whilst pocketing the extra dosh. Then when you get the chance re-train as air eng. It’s not even a re-branch once you’re in the system, as we are all one trade now.
you aint seen me right
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Well wotd'ya know,
Fancy that, you stop training FEs, the new aircraft ISDs move to the right (that's never happened before !?!?) and you end up in a situation where you will be down in required numbers of FEs in the medium to long term. I just can't fathom it
So, lets start looking at some incentives for the boys then as a large majority of those I know have been researching their next "careers". Once the school closed we knew, that was that, and started to look else where. Until it closed it was just another maybe. The school had been closing for FE training since I joined
And that was nearly a full career ago.
So, FRIs/ PAS/extensions past 55 yrs/bring back promotion (that'll never catch on), I know, lets give the boys reserved rights to promotion pay scales as there's no promotion slots
I give up,
I still have bruises from banging my head against the wall and before you all start with we'll put GEs through 2 OCUs, recruit more Ozzies, Open the school again but (the modular course was not been designed with FEs in mind) the backbone of training i.e. the sim is supposedly on its way to 51 as a procedures trainer ?
I give up
Ginge
Fancy that, you stop training FEs, the new aircraft ISDs move to the right (that's never happened before !?!?) and you end up in a situation where you will be down in required numbers of FEs in the medium to long term. I just can't fathom it
So, lets start looking at some incentives for the boys then as a large majority of those I know have been researching their next "careers". Once the school closed we knew, that was that, and started to look else where. Until it closed it was just another maybe. The school had been closing for FE training since I joined
And that was nearly a full career ago.So, FRIs/ PAS/extensions past 55 yrs/bring back promotion (that'll never catch on), I know, lets give the boys reserved rights to promotion pay scales as there's no promotion slots
I give up,
I still have bruises from banging my head against the wall and before you all start with we'll put GEs through 2 OCUs, recruit more Ozzies, Open the school again but (the modular course was not been designed with FEs in mind) the backbone of training i.e. the sim is supposedly on its way to 51 as a procedures trainer ?
I give up
Ginge
Ginger Beer,
Have a look at the cornishpixie's post. I don't think the Aussie's will be very happy letting us have any of their FE's this time, as they are now trying to recruit ours LOL .
Smug feelings of we told you so.
you aint seen me right .
Have a look at the cornishpixie's post. I don't think the Aussie's will be very happy letting us have any of their FE's this time, as they are now trying to recruit ours LOL .
Smug feelings of we told you so.
you aint seen me right
.
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If all that has been said in the past few posts is true, then there are going to be some gaps in the Air Eng cadre sooner rather than later. I know of at least 3 leaving my particular sqn in the next year, with at least the same number the year after. If this is just a snapshot of what is happening on every other sqn, then we are going to have some overworked eng's in the near future. Put that together with no promotion and very little pa spine, then morale is bound to increase. I do hope that the powers that be are not relying on Engineers to stay in out of duty and loyalty, as i know this will not happen. There are a lot of people out there who are a bit disenchanted with their lot at the moment and have the abilty/skills/motivation to move on if they feel they are being taken for granted.
D-F
D-F
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Fantaman,
it's true I'm afraid, the Air Eng door is now shut and from what I can tell from PMA is likely to remain so. However, if you are interested in the NCA route, PM me or give me a shout at Kinloss and I will sort out a visit for you.
Regards
DA
it's true I'm afraid, the Air Eng door is now shut and from what I can tell from PMA is likely to remain so. However, if you are interested in the NCA route, PM me or give me a shout at Kinloss and I will sort out a visit for you.
Regards
DA
Last edited by Dave Allen; 1st Mar 2006 at 21:05.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Dave is right and it will always remain thus that Air Eng training is finished. Why? Because the decision to close the school was taken at a extremely high level and no one is going to ever admit that they made a mistake!
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Well, mistake or not, at the risk of expanding this discussion beyond Fantaman's question, I think we can be reasonably certain that eng training/recruitment will re-commence sometime in the future. Yes, the school is closed and the resources to produce an eng of the traditional style have probably gone forever. There were too many staff, and there would have been too many in the future, for the diminishing training requirement in the years ahead. However, we know that one aircraft type (E3) is already scheduled to remain in service long after the last student to graduate from Cranwell will reach Age 55 and give any achievable Continued Service. Furthermore, I doubt that there will be sufficient numbers of civilian flight engineers to meet the future recruitment need. The RAF will have to recruit engs from other military organisations or recommence type-specific training to an acceptable standard for the relevant aircraft. The concept of utilising OCU resources has been muted and needs close examination. It is achievable with the right personnel selected for the training. I would suggest that the RAF should draw from established volunteer NCA, with solid airmanship, with experience on the type in question. Clearly, there are some types and roles which are beyond the scope of this concept, but Nimrod and Herc K are worth considering.
Is this something we should be working on now? I believe it is.
Is this something we should be working on now? I believe it is.
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Hi Kev
How's sunny Kinloss, still beneath 6" of snow!! Hear you are short of Eng's again, any news on when you'll see your first MRA4 and a run down of eng's there?
How's sunny Kinloss, still beneath 6" of snow!! Hear you are short of Eng's again, any news on when you'll see your first MRA4 and a run down of eng's there?
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Yep, we've had some snow lately, though today has been dry.
And yes, we are slightly below establishment at the moment. Hopefully the last few studes from Cranwell will restore the balance as this year progresses, and then its downhill all the way....
I don't involve myself in discussions about the MRA4. Mainly because I don't know enough about it and I'm not sure that I want to know. I certainly don't have any info about its progress that isn't already in the public domain. We haven't been told when the eng drawdown will commence. I'm guessing it will occur, as an insignificant side issue, when the first MR2 crew is disbanded. I've heard nothing about that yet. Whether or not the engs on the disbanded crews are posted south or moved elswehere on the unit will depend on our overall balance at that time.
Regards
Kev
And yes, we are slightly below establishment at the moment. Hopefully the last few studes from Cranwell will restore the balance as this year progresses, and then its downhill all the way....
I don't involve myself in discussions about the MRA4. Mainly because I don't know enough about it and I'm not sure that I want to know. I certainly don't have any info about its progress that isn't already in the public domain. We haven't been told when the eng drawdown will commence. I'm guessing it will occur, as an insignificant side issue, when the first MR2 crew is disbanded. I've heard nothing about that yet. Whether or not the engs on the disbanded crews are posted south or moved elswehere on the unit will depend on our overall balance at that time.
Regards
Kev