FJ v Helicopter
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Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
But you have problems;
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
2. I'm RWR aware.
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
3. I know and exploit the weaknesses of your radar
And whilst you may think you can hide in a valley, you are totally predictable ... it's not rocket science to interpret raw radar cut off and translate the picture onto a map - navs have been trained in this for years ...
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
4. I'll out-turn you all day, and I'll probably out endure you.
Night: Much much harder for the FJ to VID, but we have goggs too ...
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
5. I will shoot back.
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
I've "fought" against F3s (very operator dependant)
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
Of all of the above ac, only the latter (Typhoon) has made me feel uncomfortable inside the merge-slag it off all you like, it can really turn / accellerate. So, does a jet mate want to bleed his energy, waste a weapon on a low PK shot and linger for our cavalry to arrive, I think not.
Originally Posted by Evalu8ter
Mind you, all bets off with ASRAAM.....
Last edited by threepointonefour; 25th Feb 2006 at 08:49.
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Chaps, great reading but ..... are you not gettig slightly close to BEADWINDOW!
Lights touch paper. Stands back ...... evade go.
I did like the undo straps and run up and down the cabin!
F3 vs Sea King fighter affil mid 90's. 40 mins in, still no F3's - they are airborne and in the correct hemisphere but alas on the wrong island.
Debrief and rebrief for another go on next shift. Quote from their Boss. Anychance you could do it over Lafona? [ that gives the location away - for those that haven't been, Lafona (not sure on spelling), is the flatest most depressing area of the the Falklands, if we did it there [fighter affil], they would be able to see us from the runway even if we were 30 miles away! We politely refused and ran off to the hills. 20 mins in , radio call to F3's, were over here! Left a bit, thats it your looking at us!
Didn't go down well!
Lights touch paper. Stands back ...... evade go.
I did like the undo straps and run up and down the cabin!
F3 vs Sea King fighter affil mid 90's. 40 mins in, still no F3's - they are airborne and in the correct hemisphere but alas on the wrong island.
Debrief and rebrief for another go on next shift. Quote from their Boss. Anychance you could do it over Lafona? [ that gives the location away - for those that haven't been, Lafona (not sure on spelling), is the flatest most depressing area of the the Falklands, if we did it there [fighter affil], they would be able to see us from the runway even if we were 30 miles away! We politely refused and ran off to the hills. 20 mins in , radio call to F3's, were over here! Left a bit, thats it your looking at us!
Didn't go down well!
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ASRAAM v RW
Originally Posted by threepointonefour
Which we have had for 3 yrs ...so I guess that all bets have been off for a while?
Typhoon and ASRAAM on the other hand...
3.14,
Fights On! Joking aside, I totally agree with your last post, RW/FJ affil can be some of the best flying we get on our side-a 2v2 is an excellent tool for judging the capacity of the people you fly with! We do have to be careful about the Beadwindow issue, which is why I've tried to keep my answers vague(ish..) but I would just like to say that we train for a "Red" threat so we don't derive trg benefit for our crews if you fight "blue" and stay high lobbing AMRAAM/ASRAAM at us, but most affil sorties end up in horse-trading with you guys "dumbing down" some serials for our trg. You're also right-all fights are operator dependant, I'll take a timed out F2 for that no-brainer comment. Bottom line is that we don't teach our crews to fight the F3 per se, it's just a tool to get them thinking about the problems, and we do exploit the limitations of your jet as we would any adversary's.
Fights On! Joking aside, I totally agree with your last post, RW/FJ affil can be some of the best flying we get on our side-a 2v2 is an excellent tool for judging the capacity of the people you fly with! We do have to be careful about the Beadwindow issue, which is why I've tried to keep my answers vague(ish..) but I would just like to say that we train for a "Red" threat so we don't derive trg benefit for our crews if you fight "blue" and stay high lobbing AMRAAM/ASRAAM at us, but most affil sorties end up in horse-trading with you guys "dumbing down" some serials for our trg. You're also right-all fights are operator dependant, I'll take a timed out F2 for that no-brainer comment. Bottom line is that we don't teach our crews to fight the F3 per se, it's just a tool to get them thinking about the problems, and we do exploit the limitations of your jet as we would any adversary's.
Hi all
Was it not the case that Israeli Mirages or A-4s destroyed an assault force of Egyptian or Syrian Mi-8s, carrying commandos, over open desert, in one of their many wars.I recall reading that a lot of the Mi-8s either flew into the ground trying to evade or were blown down by the wake of the jets and that few were lost to actual cannon strikes, or were strafed after the crews had landed and bugged out.
regards
TDD
Was it not the case that Israeli Mirages or A-4s destroyed an assault force of Egyptian or Syrian Mi-8s, carrying commandos, over open desert, in one of their many wars.I recall reading that a lot of the Mi-8s either flew into the ground trying to evade or were blown down by the wake of the jets and that few were lost to actual cannon strikes, or were strafed after the crews had landed and bugged out.
regards
TDD
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Originally Posted by petitfromage
Whilst the USAF did get a kill on a Mil-8 with a LGB in GW1, they also V.ID'd a pair of US Army Blackhawks as Russian Hinds and shot them down in Afganistan (circa 1990).
Not to defend the F15 guys, but those Blackhawks were fitted with the EISS external stores & tanks that have anhedral pylons AND were painted white instead of the typical camo-green...
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Blue on Blue
The blue-on-blue engagement on 14 Apr 94 that US Herk refered to is also covered as a Responsibility and Accountability case study for students at Annapolis.
The case study notes a total of 130 documented failures occurred causing this incident.
The F-15 pilots repositioned their aircraft five to ten miles behind the helicopters for firing passes and the flight lead notified the AWACS TAOR controller that the fighters were “Engaged.” At approximately 0730Z, the lead F-15 pilot fired an AIM-120 AMRAAM missile at the trail helicopter from a range of approximately four nautical miles. The F-15 wingman then fired an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile at the lead helicopter from an approximate range of 1.5 nautical miles. Both Black Hawk helicopters were destroyed. All 26 people on board were killed. The F-15 pilots each made two visual reconnaissance passes over the crash sites, then continued their assigned mission.
One of the Pumas engaged by the SHars near Shag Cove crashed during evasion, it was later discovered to be overloaded with mortar rounds, IIRC the other 2 Pumas & A109 landed on and were promptly shot up. During GW1 a Hip was shot down by repeated gun attacks from a section of A10s (now that's just not nice), F15s used an LGB on a Hind as the kinetic range of the LGB outranged the Sidewinder. Of interest, both these kills were as a result of AWACS vectoring. During the Iran/Iraq war some particularly unsporting kills occurred, including Pheonix v Super Frelon and even Maverick v Super Frelon (it was sat on an oil platform at the time). Moral of the story, don't fly a Super Frelon! The Iranians claimed a number of MiG-21s shot down by Sea Cobra cannon fire and the Iraqis claimed, amongst others, an F4 shot down by a Sagger(!) fired by a Hind. When you actually start digging you find out that a lot of this stuff has gone on over the years; it's not just fun to do!!
