Pilot Pay Scale or New FRI?
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Pilot Pay Scale or New FRI?
Lots of people on Friday asking if there was a..... or mentioning rumours of a... new FRI or even a pay scale for pilots, a bit like Padres and Docs. Where has this come from suddenly or are people just hoping/clutching at straws that somehow there maybe something to stop the Air Force heomoraging (Sp?) experienced pilots?
The days when enhanced pay alone would retain people appear to be long gone....
What is the point in increasing pay when most poor $ods of the non-FJ world seem to spend half their time in various $hitholes such as the Great Sandtray or the Islas Malvinas.... An opportunity to spend their pay would doubtless be welcomed by many.
And it's 'haemorrhaging', by the way.
What is the point in increasing pay when most poor $ods of the non-FJ world seem to spend half their time in various $hitholes such as the Great Sandtray or the Islas Malvinas.... An opportunity to spend their pay would doubtless be welcomed by many.
And it's 'haemorrhaging', by the way.
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Originally Posted by BEagle
The days when enhanced pay alone would retain people appear to be long gone....
Originally Posted by BEagle
What is the point in increasing pay when most poor $ods of the non-FJ world seem to spend half their time in various $hitholes such as the Great Sandtray or the Islas Malvinas....
What we really need is to come up with a new scheme to encourage division amongst flight deck members ....
It was stated in one of the Pension Emails recently that FRI eligibilty ceases for all remaining eligible aircrew on 31 Mar 07.
Whatever that means (as I'm sure that will change!)?
Sorry, you're probably right. I guess the RAF has shrunk so much over the last few years that the relatively small number of FJs deployed to support Bliar's global adventurism now represent a significant percentage of the total RAF strength.....
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I'd agree that FRIs tend not to achieve much apart from making those who do want to stay feel less of a mug for doing so, but I think that a new pay band might well have potential.
I'm PAS and pretty happy at the moment with my particular job, whilst also more than aware of the shortcomings of the system and the Service. As a result of these, almost all of my pilot colleagues are either PVRing or leaving at an option point. None hope to find more satisfying flying in civvy street, but they do hope to at least be given the impression by their new employers that they are valued assets, and will have a greater degree of financial reward in exchange for a less fulfilling day-to-day grind.
However, pay us who are staying (or who are considering it) a comparable wage,(not discounted, not phased in, no 'X' factor bolleaux; just what an experienced multi-engine airline training captain would get after 20 years of loyal service), and I reckon a fair few would happily trade all the "quality of life" reduction that we are all aware of, against the chance to continue to use our hard won military operational skills and knowledge on a daily basis.
That opportunity is after all why most of us joined up, even if the memory is now shrouded in the mists of time.
The figure I heard mentioned was £80K BTW...
There are of course other issues, such as how to cope with the banter (and begging letters) from the rest of the crew, but I'm not sure that there is any other way to retain what little experience we still have.
I'm PAS and pretty happy at the moment with my particular job, whilst also more than aware of the shortcomings of the system and the Service. As a result of these, almost all of my pilot colleagues are either PVRing or leaving at an option point. None hope to find more satisfying flying in civvy street, but they do hope to at least be given the impression by their new employers that they are valued assets, and will have a greater degree of financial reward in exchange for a less fulfilling day-to-day grind.
However, pay us who are staying (or who are considering it) a comparable wage,(not discounted, not phased in, no 'X' factor bolleaux; just what an experienced multi-engine airline training captain would get after 20 years of loyal service), and I reckon a fair few would happily trade all the "quality of life" reduction that we are all aware of, against the chance to continue to use our hard won military operational skills and knowledge on a daily basis.
That opportunity is after all why most of us joined up, even if the memory is now shrouded in the mists of time.
The figure I heard mentioned was £80K BTW...
There are of course other issues, such as how to cope with the banter (and begging letters) from the rest of the crew, but I'm not sure that there is any other way to retain what little experience we still have.
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Maximo
I like your sentiment, and your idea would be great for us PAS types - but I understand that the real retention problem is with CS aircrew (sqn ldrs in particular). Your idea of £80k might be nice for them whilst they are serving, but to have a pension based on only a fraction of that salary won't do much to encourage them to stay when they see their PAS colleagues being treated so differently.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, "they do hope to at least be given the impression by their new employers that they are valued assets".
I like your sentiment, and your idea would be great for us PAS types - but I understand that the real retention problem is with CS aircrew (sqn ldrs in particular). Your idea of £80k might be nice for them whilst they are serving, but to have a pension based on only a fraction of that salary won't do much to encourage them to stay when they see their PAS colleagues being treated so differently.
You hit the nail on the head when you said, "they do hope to at least be given the impression by their new employers that they are valued assets".
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I think the FRI was aimed at completely the wrong group last time. If you are within a tour or 2 of your 38 point, then the chances are you'll see your time out for the pension / gratuity / resettlement. Money was given to those who were saying " Thanks very much, but I'm staying anyway !!!"
It needs to target the 28 - 33 yr old band, 2nd tourists who are approaching an option point. Keep the amount the same, but make the time limit longer (i.e Give the money on condition they stay till 38) if they accountants are looking for value / a return on their money.
All that's happened is those that took it are coming up to their 38 and leaving, and those who weren't given it, the generation below, are off at their 12 yr option or PVR'ing for better pay and lifestyle in the airlines.
Just my opinion and happy to be corrected if I've got my facts wrong.
It needs to target the 28 - 33 yr old band, 2nd tourists who are approaching an option point. Keep the amount the same, but make the time limit longer (i.e Give the money on condition they stay till 38) if they accountants are looking for value / a return on their money.
All that's happened is those that took it are coming up to their 38 and leaving, and those who weren't given it, the generation below, are off at their 12 yr option or PVR'ing for better pay and lifestyle in the airlines.
Just my opinion and happy to be corrected if I've got my facts wrong.
As a recipient of both FRIs I can honestly say that I think that FRI1 was poorly targetted - with just 3 years to go I was staying anyway!
However, the FRI2 was better targetted. I was looking around at Airline jobs that had low starting salaries of £35k and non-final-salary linked pensions (adding my 2 and 1/2 16yr pension to that was significantly less than what I am earning now - even if I didn't max commute; which I'd be mad not to!). Secondly, the fact that I was to be paid £30k (tax paid) to stay for another 5 years (may as well make it 6yrs as I'm staying to 44yrs) offset the fact that I would not be getting a large lump sum gratuity at 38yrs. It also kept Mrs LJ happy.
So did FRI2 retain me? You bet'ya...
LJ
However, the FRI2 was better targetted. I was looking around at Airline jobs that had low starting salaries of £35k and non-final-salary linked pensions (adding my 2 and 1/2 16yr pension to that was significantly less than what I am earning now - even if I didn't max commute; which I'd be mad not to!). Secondly, the fact that I was to be paid £30k (tax paid) to stay for another 5 years (may as well make it 6yrs as I'm staying to 44yrs) offset the fact that I would not be getting a large lump sum gratuity at 38yrs. It also kept Mrs LJ happy.
So did FRI2 retain me? You bet'ya...
LJ
Equally, the availability of a large immediate lump sum and most of their pension for those within 5 years of full-career point NRD on the old SA scheme, coupled with no retention incentive in the 2003 pay review was a guaranteed push factor - which only added to the other push factors of the time!
Push factors which appear to be ever-increasing whilst the airlines are snapping up any ex-RAF ME pilot who bothers to apply, from what I hear.
Push factors which appear to be ever-increasing whilst the airlines are snapping up any ex-RAF ME pilot who bothers to apply, from what I hear.
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I have to concur with Leon.... I received FRI 1 and to be honest I couldnt believe they were giving it to me. There I was, a 40 odd yr old bloke who had been in the service for 25 yrs, 2 kids, 1 wife, 2 mortgages and a clapped out Mondeo and they were giving me money in order to stay in....absolutely bizarre.
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Southside,
Don't miss the point on FRI1. As I understand it, it is designed for guys intending to leave at the 12 year point and it is a carrot for them to sign up for a Career Commission (for the RN anyway). The fact that you got it at 40 (you must be a GL which explains alot) is just to make it fair across the board.
I have been told by a civvi friend working for BA that if you join the airlines before aged 34, you have the ability to achieve the maximum salary and therefore the best possible pension. Because in the airlines seniority is everything. A financial incentive to stay bearing this in mind is imperitive.
Therefore, FRI1 is very well pitch and according to the guys who gave a lecture at Shrivenham the last time I was there, it appears to be working to some extent.
Handyman
Don't miss the point on FRI1. As I understand it, it is designed for guys intending to leave at the 12 year point and it is a carrot for them to sign up for a Career Commission (for the RN anyway). The fact that you got it at 40 (you must be a GL which explains alot) is just to make it fair across the board.
I have been told by a civvi friend working for BA that if you join the airlines before aged 34, you have the ability to achieve the maximum salary and therefore the best possible pension. Because in the airlines seniority is everything. A financial incentive to stay bearing this in mind is imperitive.
Therefore, FRI1 is very well pitch and according to the guys who gave a lecture at Shrivenham the last time I was there, it appears to be working to some extent.
Handyman
