Bah humbug or fair play if you can manage it? RAF and the Winter Olympics

[Cambridge Crash]

Bah Humbug or Leadership?

I was very fortunate to be selected during Op Granby to represent the RAF, and then the country, at a posh sport. A number of other light-blue were similarly selected and at a PR bash in Chelsea, CAS (the much denigrated Sir Peter Harding) addressed a large, primarily civilian, audience where he stressed the role of leadership and team-playing that sport and adventurous activities engendered. It was clear he was conscious of criticisms that could be levelled, ie allowing personnel off for a year 'when there was a war on' so he said 'if you want to see what the demands of leadership in the RAF are, look at our guys over Iraq', or words to that effect. This led to a round of rigorous head-nodding and then spontaneous clapping from the assembled masses, many from the otherwise cynical IT industry.

I had only just transferred to the RAF, and under the old system I was manpower non-effective during my year out. Nonetheless, for many years later I was tarred with the sobriquiet of 'Oh, that's that chap who spends all his time playing sport' (admittedly admin salad-dodgers). Sadly it didn't help in the promotion stakes but I took comfort from the fact that I had represented my Service and my country in a tough and demanding sport. What appology is needed?

[Melchett01]

I occasionally partake in representative competitive sports for the RAF but can see how the fat bloaters in the RAF who can't seem to lift their own bodyweight let alone do anything sweat inducing (and I don't mean contemplating a salad instead of chips) could be annoyed by someone who can actually pass the p!ss easy RAF AFT getting time away from the workplace to pursue an outside interest

And you make my point for me - TVM.

Yes, you're right the AFT is a doddle, even after numerous bits of lower limb surgery. The point I'm making Stacker is that if you want to get to a representative level at sport, thats fine. But why should everyone else have to cover all your duties for months on end and occassionally for the entire gapped tour whilst you swan off to indulge a personal interest? I am in the process of working towards my ski instructor ticks, haven't needed to ask for a few months off to do it though - and that's what grips my sh*t when we are so massively overstretched.

But making an assumption here from your name that you are indeed from our blanket stacking bretheren, then you bring me nicely on to the other bug bear. Hands up anyone that has seen someone in RAF Active for the past few months, telling the world about their exped to South African golf courses or that 'exped' to California that just happens to take in Hollywood and the wine growing areas, that is actually in an operational branch and on an operational unit/sqn. Bet you'd be hard pushed to find more than a couple, if any. It's always the scribblies, stackers and malingers!

And yes HS, I'm sure that does count as a bite, but you know I'm right

[The Helpful Stacker]

Well I must say that was indeed a fine bite.

As for you comment on what other units do and the trade background composition of their AT expeds I can't really say, all I can use is my personal experience.

Having served on 'the wing' for 6 years I can say yes, it riled me when I managed to grab a quick scan of one of the RAF propaganda mags and saw folk sipping wine in the south of France etc but I can't say I ever noticed a huge proportion of those being from 'blunty' backgrounds. In fact I never really noticed any trades mentioned, unless it was an individual who was being reported on.

[Legalapproach]

I am a director of the British Bobsleigh Association and have a close connection with the British Team. Those servicemen and women who compete for GB are by no means swanning off to enjoy their favourite sports. They are all dedicated athletes who have secured their places on merit and performance putting a huge effort into their training very often at considerable personal cost. External funding is limited and I know of a number who have self financed not only large parts of their training but also elements of their competing. In these days of shrinking armed forces such activities probably hinder rather than increase career/promotion chances. Yet the armed forces do benefit from a degree of very positive publicity and from the promotion of adventure training activities.

Anyone who fancies swanning around in preparation for the 2010 Winter games should contact Major Helen Carter of the Army Bobsleigh Association and get themselves on this years Army Ice Camp (Training for bobsleigh, skeleton and luge).

[FJJP]

Don't start slagging off Rory Underwood. For a start, at IOT, he was immediately put under pressure that he WOULD be playing for England, whatever the circumstances during his training. That hurt his progress.

Then when he hit the Sqn [360], he was away for periods training or playing. However, when he got back strapped into the jet, he flew hard and long and made the same hours as everyone else.

I admired the bloke for his dedication to both his country team and the Sqn.

[lightningmate]

FJJP,

Three posts above refer to Rory - I interpret no 'slagging' content whatsoever!

I concur your comments ref Rory's time on 360.

lm

[Mmmmnice]

Of course we should support anyone who wants to participate in sport at any level. It's fairly rare to see certain sectors of the RAf doing any kind of sport (no names no PD etc - but they tend to sit in the front of the flying things) - and then they wonder what will happen if they are plucked from their comfy drivers seat and deposited in the middle of a battle field - bit late to go on a fitness drive to make the dash to safety a bit easier.
Given the frequent winges about how tedious day-to-day life is I would have thought that the opportunity for a bit of legitimate skiving would be quite appealing. Obviously the couch-potato lobby is holding sway - led by those who drive from the 400 yds from the patch/mess on a daily basis.........time to end rant

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

What annoys me is when a section head says that he cannot afford to release Bloggs for sport/AT, then the section head gets called into the Bosses office to be informed that he will release him. Happens all the time.
Make 'em remuster as PTI's. Just a thought.

[Legalapproach]

Army Ice camp video:

http://www.army.mod.uk/linked_files/.../Novices_2.wmv

[Onan the Clumsy]

Someone said civvy street wouldn't support their employees taknig time for the Olympics. Back in 2004, Home Depot had a campaign that did just this. I think they even made special part time jobs for people who needed time to train.

I have no opinions on the matter one way or the other, though my next door neighbour won a gold once. Very nice bloke too, which to me is a hundred times more important.

[threepointonefour]

Originally Posted by Cambridge Crash

It was clear he was conscious of criticisms that could be levelled, ie allowing personnel off for a year 'when there was a war on' so he said 'if you want to see what the demands of leadership in the RAF are, look at our guys over Iraq', or words to that effect.

I have to agree with the 'critics on this one ... it's totally pointless developing the leadership skills of 'sportsmen' who are then unavailable when those leadership skills are in demand - ie, in time of war ... which (for some needs re-stating) is actually part of the job.

I for one get fairly annoyed at the annual mass exodus to the "Ski Champs" ... ON DUTY ?? How does that work? DUTY??

[Melchett01]

Obviously the couch-potato lobby is holding sway - led by those who drive from the 400 yds from the patch/mess on a daily basis.........time to end rant

Not at all. If you had read my earlier post, I said I was all for people getting away for AT/sport and that it was a good way of stopping half the sqn killing each other before 10am on a Monday morning. What I just don't see why when we are massively overstretched and on permanent ops, and are likely to be so for the next few years, we are letting people slope off to go and spend 3 years training to be Britain's next macramy champion.

I can just see it now: Gulf War 3, the road to Tehran and I'm stuck on ops with someone that hasn't got a clue which is the right end of a rifle - but he takes a mean corner kick and can complete the Cresta Run in record breaking time. Fat lot of good that will do us.

There is a distinction between getting away for AT/sport/general phys and kicking the arse out of it for a tour when we are as busy as we are. Shame some people can't see that - I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they are working on ops with said Cresta Run expert when it all goes horribly wrong!

[Cambridge Crash]

3.14

3.14: I agree that the chances of encountering AQ or even a det of Iraqi RG in the middle of the Channel (oops! revealed the sport) was remote, however the skills that one acquires in a demanding environment can only serve to those who serve.

Admittedly, my pasttime as a yachtsman was about the last thing that went through my mind when I had a nasty encounter with Boskovski's Lions in FYROM in 1999 or with dissident KLA members several months later. However, having crewed on vessels in mountainous seas under the most testing physical and mental conditions I felt better prepared than if had simply conducted three 'leads' involving the construction of pine pole contraptions in order to cross 'shark infested custard'.

CC

[Widger]

I have been reading this thread with a wry smile on my face. A certain person who has been mentioned was given a hell of a lot of time off work. So was her coach! Months and Months to be more precise.
Both individuals did not have a good word to say about their respective services, despite being given loads of support and backing both by the Service and their immediate bosses. They expected to be given it all on a plate with nothing in return.
Now I agree that it is good PR and sport at this high level should be encouraged but it demands a bit of loyalty in return!

[Zoom]

I represented the RAF a few times at a minor sport and it was difficult to get time off for training or competing. We trained after work and competed at the weekends, like most other RAF sportsmen did at the time. On one occasion I was part of a team that made an assault on a particular long distance record, the success of which would depend very much on the weather conditions, but we had to select the date of the attempt about 6 months in advance - and on a weekend, of course. On the due date the weather conditions were the exact opposite of what we required and we failed in our attempt by a massive margin. If we had had the luxury of being able to pick and choose at short notice we would likely have succeeded. But that is my only gripe; for the rest of the time the balance was about right for me, especially as I enjoyed my primary job so much that I wouldn't have wanted to take a year out for any sport at any level.