Train Hard...Fight Easy.
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Train Hard...Fight Easy.
Having just been informed that the AH world are having training cut through lack of funding and to meet training timelines, I was wondering what ever happened to the moto Train Hard... Fight Easy.
Any thoughts?
PP
Any thoughts?
PP
Avoid imitations
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Someone changed their mind?
Sorry to hear this, however, there always was concern that the Army would be unable to fully support this project. Very silly indeed if it might be a case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar. Can't be at all good for the morale of those directly involved.
Sorry to hear this, however, there always was concern that the Army would be unable to fully support this project. Very silly indeed if it might be a case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar. Can't be at all good for the morale of those directly involved.
Maybe the plan is to "not fight" thus any training is excess to need. One would only have to threaten to fight and the bad guys will fall over in a faint....right?
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Appears that TWA isn't doing too bad with their new toy. They managed to get one over to Hampshire premier noise producer the other day for a play and when all is said and done thats the most important objective isn't it? Showing those who already had the technical support and infrastructure in place to operate the Apache that the bodge it and carry on approach also manages to generate a/c (even if in small numbers).
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Peoplespoet, I'm not sure about your background Army, Royal Navy or Royal Air Force, you seem shocked that the funding for Apache is being cut. This is nothing new. I've posted a reply to your thread on the AH pilots resign thread.
It might make the muddy water a little more clear!
It might make the muddy water a little more clear!
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Ah OVS,
I believe that you have hit the nail on the head my dear chap, but if the AAC is to match AH performance and mission success of the US AH Bn then they need to get with the programme PDQ. The Americans train every month to ensure that they can deliver prompt and effective Attack capability. Their crews do nothing else but fight or prepare to fight, the simulator is always at max capacity with crews getting the stuffing knocked out of them (as witnessed in Illisheim with 2/6 air cav) and boy they go through the mill. They enjoy the challenge of a fight and live up to the 'Spirit of Attack' motto they enshrine. I remember seeing one chap pulled out of the sim and torn apart by the IP for not knowing where his wingman was 'fantastic entertainment' but serious stuff non the less.
Their training mentality follows valuable lessons learned during Gulf 1 caused by the US government that felt at the time that the training was too expensive..and I bet it was for 1500 A model apaches. However you ask any US AH driver how often he trains and you will see that it is no longer an issue. The US no longer places a price on success or freedom?
The UK AH cost around £2.7 billion (69 AH) and that was just to buy and fly it, fighting the machine just got over looked, an easy mistake to make when buying the worlds most expensive and potent Attack Helicopter. I am sure that the dutch and the other nations have done exactly the same.
Never mind we will make do. The problem this time however my dear chaps is that unlike lynx the AH will be used and probably when the world is already falling apart for friendly troops on the ground; No room for error or failure!
"Train Hard....Fight Easy"...costs money....... but wins wars!
After all 16 BDE think that the AH is the Para's best friend, the 'pocket rocket system' just dial UHF 247.0 and ask for NATO 9 line ASAP!
PP
I believe that you have hit the nail on the head my dear chap, but if the AAC is to match AH performance and mission success of the US AH Bn then they need to get with the programme PDQ. The Americans train every month to ensure that they can deliver prompt and effective Attack capability. Their crews do nothing else but fight or prepare to fight, the simulator is always at max capacity with crews getting the stuffing knocked out of them (as witnessed in Illisheim with 2/6 air cav) and boy they go through the mill. They enjoy the challenge of a fight and live up to the 'Spirit of Attack' motto they enshrine. I remember seeing one chap pulled out of the sim and torn apart by the IP for not knowing where his wingman was 'fantastic entertainment' but serious stuff non the less.
Their training mentality follows valuable lessons learned during Gulf 1 caused by the US government that felt at the time that the training was too expensive..and I bet it was for 1500 A model apaches. However you ask any US AH driver how often he trains and you will see that it is no longer an issue. The US no longer places a price on success or freedom?
The UK AH cost around £2.7 billion (69 AH) and that was just to buy and fly it, fighting the machine just got over looked, an easy mistake to make when buying the worlds most expensive and potent Attack Helicopter. I am sure that the dutch and the other nations have done exactly the same.
Never mind we will make do. The problem this time however my dear chaps is that unlike lynx the AH will be used and probably when the world is already falling apart for friendly troops on the ground; No room for error or failure!
"Train Hard....Fight Easy"...costs money....... but wins wars!
After all 16 BDE think that the AH is the Para's best friend, the 'pocket rocket system' just dial UHF 247.0 and ask for NATO 9 line ASAP!
PP
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You are right in every aspect, but essentially TWA is going to blow AH because they have not funded it properly or allowed crews to train fully.
Cuts to ammo.
Cuts to flying.
Cuts to courses.
Cuts to leave.
Cuts to safety???
I know the AH QHIs resigning and I wonder if they know something I don't.
Perhaps the RAF will get AH after all.
You are right in every aspect, but essentially TWA is going to blow AH because they have not funded it properly or allowed crews to train fully.
Cuts to ammo.
Cuts to flying.
Cuts to courses.
Cuts to leave.
Cuts to safety???
I know the AH QHIs resigning and I wonder if they know something I don't.
Perhaps the RAF will get AH after all.
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CSRO,
Don't get me wrong, I raise the issues that I do in an attempt to raise the profile of what I believe to be significant training and operational shortfalls. Do not confuse that with undermining the AAC ability to conduct combat aviation; I believe that the Corps is without doubt best placed to own and fight this aircraft, management of its assets i will remain neutral on.
I have observed for years the dedication of a small team of professional instructors pulling rabbits out of hats in order to make it work, and boy i have seen some ***kin big rabbits in the past 2 years. The men flying AH at present are the Bs 'n' Es, they just cant get on and do the job properly for bureaucracy and bull**** fed to MOD.
Even TFAD was achieved with a big bluff, have we trained enough men to support operations? Well during the TFAD assessment exercise at least 1 crew possibly 2 crews had to be provided from the AMTAT to the ready for war 9th Regt AAC in order that they could take part in the exercise.
Now that so many people are leaving I can't see how they have become flush with combat ready aviators to support an enduring commitment? more bluff and bluster!
When was the last time the commander JHC or DAAvn visited SAAvn or AMTAT staff's (the instructors not the SO1s) to see what the pitfalls are? never perhaps. Ask and you will be told, don't ask and all is Rosy and lets go to war. I bet this sounds familiar, but the truth none the less and a significant factor into why the professional combat aviators that have become frustrated, annoyed and disappointed are wanting to leave!
PP.
Don't get me wrong, I raise the issues that I do in an attempt to raise the profile of what I believe to be significant training and operational shortfalls. Do not confuse that with undermining the AAC ability to conduct combat aviation; I believe that the Corps is without doubt best placed to own and fight this aircraft, management of its assets i will remain neutral on.
I have observed for years the dedication of a small team of professional instructors pulling rabbits out of hats in order to make it work, and boy i have seen some ***kin big rabbits in the past 2 years. The men flying AH at present are the Bs 'n' Es, they just cant get on and do the job properly for bureaucracy and bull**** fed to MOD.
Even TFAD was achieved with a big bluff, have we trained enough men to support operations? Well during the TFAD assessment exercise at least 1 crew possibly 2 crews had to be provided from the AMTAT to the ready for war 9th Regt AAC in order that they could take part in the exercise.
Now that so many people are leaving I can't see how they have become flush with combat ready aviators to support an enduring commitment? more bluff and bluster!
When was the last time the commander JHC or DAAvn visited SAAvn or AMTAT staff's (the instructors not the SO1s) to see what the pitfalls are? never perhaps. Ask and you will be told, don't ask and all is Rosy and lets go to war. I bet this sounds familiar, but the truth none the less and a significant factor into why the professional combat aviators that have become frustrated, annoyed and disappointed are wanting to leave!
PP.
Last edited by peoplespoet; 26th Jan 2006 at 08:40.
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Peoplespoet,
To aspire to be as good as the Yanks at anything involving aviation shows an astonishing lack of ambition. I was under the impression that we were intending to be a lot better, one for one.
To aspire to be as good as the Yanks at anything involving aviation shows an astonishing lack of ambition. I was under the impression that we were intending to be a lot better, one for one.
