Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
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Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
Following recent attendance at OASC, I've been offered positions as a Fighter Control Officer, ATCO or WSOp.
The Fighter Control was an option given to me even though I didnt request it, and I'd like to consider all career possibilities before writing any off.
Although I have spoken to the local AFCO, including the OC, and searched the web incessantly, I can't find anything of use with regards to the day to day life, future prospects, high and lowlights of being an FC.
It seems to be a dark art shrouded in mystery, one which nobody seems to know about!
Could anyone possibly shed a little light with regards to what an FC does apart from 'defend the
UK's airspace onboard an E3 or at one of our remote radar stations'?
Any input would be gratefully recieved,
A very indecisive Orville
The Fighter Control was an option given to me even though I didnt request it, and I'd like to consider all career possibilities before writing any off.
Although I have spoken to the local AFCO, including the OC, and searched the web incessantly, I can't find anything of use with regards to the day to day life, future prospects, high and lowlights of being an FC.
It seems to be a dark art shrouded in mystery, one which nobody seems to know about!
Could anyone possibly shed a little light with regards to what an FC does apart from 'defend the
UK's airspace onboard an E3 or at one of our remote radar stations'?
Any input would be gratefully recieved,
A very indecisive Orville
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
INCOMING!!!!!
Orville, you are about to see the results of HE weapons at close range. FC's in this forum are objects of derision, or at best, pity.
I'm in another country's air force as a weapons controller ('scuse me, air battle manager (RAF FC-equivalent)), so I can speak to the controlling aspect, but not what it is like in the RAF.
PM if desired.
(I'll just push my glasses back up now and wait for the booms! Good luck!)
Orville, you are about to see the results of HE weapons at close range. FC's in this forum are objects of derision, or at best, pity.
I'm in another country's air force as a weapons controller ('scuse me, air battle manager (RAF FC-equivalent)), so I can speak to the controlling aspect, but not what it is like in the RAF.
PM if desired.
(I'll just push my glasses back up now and wait for the booms! Good luck!)
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
Orville,
This is classic OASC policy to offer you FC first. They will offer you the Branch that they are having problems filling, they did it to me! Think carefully my friend before jumping in.
If you really want to play with aeroplanes then go down the ATC route. At least there will be opportunities for you in Civvy street when you leave. After all, Mil & Civil ATC is all about keeping aircraft apart and not as in the case of FC, bringing them together. As we speak, the RAF/RN Mil ATCO's under training at Shawbury are way ahead on ESARR 5 (European Safety & Regulatory Requirements), something the FC Branch are dragging their heals on.
While FC serves it's purpose for the Mil, you are not going to have much to put on your CV when you come to leave. Good luck in your application and feel free to PM me if you have any questions on the RAF Air Traffic Control Branch.
This is classic OASC policy to offer you FC first. They will offer you the Branch that they are having problems filling, they did it to me! Think carefully my friend before jumping in.
If you really want to play with aeroplanes then go down the ATC route. At least there will be opportunities for you in Civvy street when you leave. After all, Mil & Civil ATC is all about keeping aircraft apart and not as in the case of FC, bringing them together. As we speak, the RAF/RN Mil ATCO's under training at Shawbury are way ahead on ESARR 5 (European Safety & Regulatory Requirements), something the FC Branch are dragging their heals on.
While FC serves it's purpose for the Mil, you are not going to have much to put on your CV when you come to leave. Good luck in your application and feel free to PM me if you have any questions on the RAF Air Traffic Control Branch.
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
You'll have a difficult task sorting the banter out from the truth here. Suggest you get your local AFCO to jack up visits to Boulmer, Scampton-Kirton-in-Lindsey and Waddington.
I joined on a Cadetship in 1985 and I've had a great time and enjoyed the job and the mates. The task of controlling aeroplanes in a busy environment and under a fair bit of pressure from all sides is either something you enjoy thoroughly or run away bravely from. The job satisfaction on the surveillance side of the house also depends on your own perceptions - the only way is to go and have a look.
Longer term careers are picking up for all the non-flying branches, and in the Joint environment the Army & RN probably value some of the Branches such as FC more than some of the aircrew. Unfortunately, there is still a fair amount of institutional arrogance around amongst some of the brevet fraternity - but don't let them put you off. Moreover, the better aircrew tend to make the most of your expertise - the flak normally comes from the low-average operators who like to get their retaliation in early. Especially chopped F4 mates like some of the old farts on here. On the other hand, the working relationships that I've formed with the sharper aircrew are still strong after many years of ops and staff work.
The bottom line - which Branch is for you depends on your own outlook and expectations. Try a PM to (for example) Tablet Eraser, SirTopphamHat, BunkerMentality or Wyler for the latest hot poop.
I joined on a Cadetship in 1985 and I've had a great time and enjoyed the job and the mates. The task of controlling aeroplanes in a busy environment and under a fair bit of pressure from all sides is either something you enjoy thoroughly or run away bravely from. The job satisfaction on the surveillance side of the house also depends on your own perceptions - the only way is to go and have a look.
Longer term careers are picking up for all the non-flying branches, and in the Joint environment the Army & RN probably value some of the Branches such as FC more than some of the aircrew. Unfortunately, there is still a fair amount of institutional arrogance around amongst some of the brevet fraternity - but don't let them put you off. Moreover, the better aircrew tend to make the most of your expertise - the flak normally comes from the low-average operators who like to get their retaliation in early. Especially chopped F4 mates like some of the old farts on here. On the other hand, the working relationships that I've formed with the sharper aircrew are still strong after many years of ops and staff work.
The bottom line - which Branch is for you depends on your own outlook and expectations. Try a PM to (for example) Tablet Eraser, SirTopphamHat, BunkerMentality or Wyler for the latest hot poop.
Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
However, if you really want to play IN aeroplanes, and wear a real brevet, then WSOp is the only choice. (In your list, that is.)
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
By all means pm me if you want the latest hot poop - for now, this is the office (well about one third of it anyway):
And, you have to go upstairs to get into this one - an unusual experience I can assure you!
Good words from the Inspector - it is not that difficult to arrange a visit, and if OASC has offered has already made an offer of a place at Cranditz, you owe it to yourself and to us. It should now be possible to visit Waddington, 1 ACC and Scampton in a day, and there are (I think) reasonably frequent RJP visits to Boulmer.
STH
And, you have to go upstairs to get into this one - an unusual experience I can assure you!
Good words from the Inspector - it is not that difficult to arrange a visit, and if OASC has offered has already made an offer of a place at Cranditz, you owe it to yourself and to us. It should now be possible to visit Waddington, 1 ACC and Scampton in a day, and there are (I think) reasonably frequent RJP visits to Boulmer.
STH
Last edited by SirToppamHat; 14th Jan 2006 at 08:13.
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
The air traffic chum may have a point with regards to CAA licenses etc. However, with the increasing digitisation of modern warfare the ex-Fcs are very gainfully employed in civvy street for a number of companies - Lockheed Martin's acquisition of the consultants STASYS (chock full of ex FC officers and TG12 sncos) being a case in point.
Last edited by Inspector Dreyfuss; 12th Jan 2006 at 19:48.
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
I have worked with all three in my time, they can all offer a rich and rewarding career. Banter On:Yes even the FC branch.. there I've said it!!
Banter Off
You really need to go and have a look at all three choices if you can. STH's excellent suggestion of the lincolnshire three should enable you to get a fairly good look at a reasonable cross section. Congrats and let us know your final choice.
Regards
TG
Banter OffYou really need to go and have a look at all three choices if you can. STH's excellent suggestion of the lincolnshire three should enable you to get a fairly good look at a reasonable cross section. Congrats and let us know your final choice.
Regards
TG
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
Orville,
If you want to fly, go WSO. As, despite what the AFCO will tell you, getting onto the E3 as a FC is far from guaranteed.
As far as FC or ATC ... well, as a recently departed FC, I think its 50/50. FC is more Operations orientated but restricted in the number of UK posting locations. ATC have lots more UK posting possibilities, but are not involved in tactics or weapons. ie the punchy military stuff! Both jobs are challenging and rewarding. You're gonna have to visit units and decide for yourself. Looks like Boulmer and Leeming for you matey! Ask your AFCO for the contact numbers. All the best and good luck.
Insp D,
Even when the ESARR5 requirements are met, Mil ATC who want to work for NATS (which after all is the major part of the UK civil ATC world), will still have to do 95% of the NATS courses anyhow. The Mil ATC guys will be probably only be exempt a few, fairly straightforward exams. NATS don't differentiate between Mil ATC or FC. So as far as post RAF careers go there's nothing in it.
Also, did you just recommend tablet_eraser for something in your previous post on this thread? It'll never catch on you know!
STH,
I take it that your photo is of an unusually quiet day?!! Or have the guys all gone camera shy?! (Yes, I know where it is.)
If you want to fly, go WSO. As, despite what the AFCO will tell you, getting onto the E3 as a FC is far from guaranteed.
As far as FC or ATC ... well, as a recently departed FC, I think its 50/50. FC is more Operations orientated but restricted in the number of UK posting locations. ATC have lots more UK posting possibilities, but are not involved in tactics or weapons. ie the punchy military stuff! Both jobs are challenging and rewarding. You're gonna have to visit units and decide for yourself. Looks like Boulmer and Leeming for you matey! Ask your AFCO for the contact numbers. All the best and good luck.
Insp D,
Even when the ESARR5 requirements are met, Mil ATC who want to work for NATS (which after all is the major part of the UK civil ATC world), will still have to do 95% of the NATS courses anyhow. The Mil ATC guys will be probably only be exempt a few, fairly straightforward exams. NATS don't differentiate between Mil ATC or FC. So as far as post RAF careers go there's nothing in it.
Also, did you just recommend tablet_eraser for something in your previous post on this thread? It'll never catch on you know!
STH,
I take it that your photo is of an unusually quiet day?!! Or have the guys all gone camera shy?! (Yes, I know where it is.)
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
Orville,
Fella you should have joined up fifteen years ago - then I could have recommended it. Sadly, now there is a paucity of assets to control and what little control positions that are allocated in the UK go to training sorties for the F3 fleet/Euro-thingy and Valley. And believe me these are few and far between. ACMI (Air Combat Manoeuvring and Instrumentation) range has gone - replaced by RAIDS and EURITS pods. Basically the focus is on moving mud, or more correctly, sand. Mud movers, bless them, don't usually have a radar and if they do get in a fight with a proper fighter will get raped and die. Ergo, don't get ina fight and side-step or run away to fight another day.
I so wish I could recommend this as a career choice but you really would be better stacking shelves or flipping burgers - or just getting strapped into a jet and going flying.
And here speaks someone who has seen the brighter side of a CQWI(AD) ACMI!!
"Remember, everything has a PK of 1.0 if it hits you">
Fella you should have joined up fifteen years ago - then I could have recommended it. Sadly, now there is a paucity of assets to control and what little control positions that are allocated in the UK go to training sorties for the F3 fleet/Euro-thingy and Valley. And believe me these are few and far between. ACMI (Air Combat Manoeuvring and Instrumentation) range has gone - replaced by RAIDS and EURITS pods. Basically the focus is on moving mud, or more correctly, sand. Mud movers, bless them, don't usually have a radar and if they do get in a fight with a proper fighter will get raped and die. Ergo, don't get ina fight and side-step or run away to fight another day.
I so wish I could recommend this as a career choice but you really would be better stacking shelves or flipping burgers - or just getting strapped into a jet and going flying.
And here speaks someone who has seen the brighter side of a CQWI(AD) ACMI!!
"Remember, everything has a PK of 1.0 if it hits you">
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
Gentleman (well im assuming), the banter seems to have been kept to a surprising minimum, and you have all opened my eyes to an opportunity I think I was somewhat blind to.
I'm definitely going to investigate further, and thanks SirToppamHat for that direction, I'll chase the AFCO asap.
As for all the responses, I seem to have been presented with a balanced debate and some really good info. Please feel free to add any more!
(There's got to be some harsh banter on the way now surely!)
Thanks again
Orville (feeling a little less indecisive)
I'm definitely going to investigate further, and thanks SirToppamHat for that direction, I'll chase the AFCO asap.
As for all the responses, I seem to have been presented with a balanced debate and some really good info. Please feel free to add any more!
(There's got to be some harsh banter on the way now surely!)
Thanks again
Orville (feeling a little less indecisive)
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
If you want to spend lots of time sitting in offices, some with windows, others without, then go AT or FC. If you want to travel round the world, with very little responsibility, go WSOp!
Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
If you really want to play with aeroplanes then go down the ATC route. At least there will be opportunities for you in Civvy street when you leave.
Good luck whatver you decide.
YS
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
ADIS,
Tut tut... so much banter! Always better when I could respond to it at Buchan (remember your placemat and a certain magazine advert?)
Orville,
If you're in Newcastle it's well worth visiting Boulmer - we're less than an hour up the A1. Put a call in to your AFCO and see if they can arrange something for you. Far better to see it up front rather than rely on some of the attitudes you might find blowing around in these forums.
Feel free to PM me.
t_e
Tut tut... so much banter! Always better when I could respond to it at Buchan (remember your placemat and a certain magazine advert?)
Orville,
If you're in Newcastle it's well worth visiting Boulmer - we're less than an hour up the A1. Put a call in to your AFCO and see if they can arrange something for you. Far better to see it up front rather than rely on some of the attitudes you might find blowing around in these forums.
Feel free to PM me.
t_e
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Re: Fighter Control - A Dark Art?
I would recommend a visit to Boulmer to have a look at the FC branch in depth. I visited last year and it was well worth the visit considering the scant information on the branch. Who knows, I might have even met SirToppamHat in my few days there. 
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