Terms of address?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Umm, where did I put the Garmin?
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Oi, Smith!" "Oi, Bill" "Oi, Boss" and "Excuse me, sir."
All seem to work depending on who and or where I'm addressing someone.
Female WO? Never met one..... So not a clue.
All seem to work depending on who and or where I'm addressing someone.
Female WO? Never met one..... So not a clue.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Britain
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CO, OC, oh heck!
RubiC, FB11,
Thanks for clearing that up - saves me repeating last nights attempts to find an answer in QRs, got some funny looks from my mates (and superiors who now think I'm planning some sort of 'by the book' mutiny) for reading that at work. Even got casually asked "you sure you don't want a copy of MAFL while you're there?"....
Thanks for clearing that up - saves me repeating last nights attempts to find an answer in QRs, got some funny looks from my mates (and superiors who now think I'm planning some sort of 'by the book' mutiny) for reading that at work. Even got casually asked "you sure you don't want a copy of MAFL while you're there?"....
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly, going a few posts back, I can vouch for the fact that not ALL WOs are professional enough to avoid allowing - or, indeed, to avoid causing - young officers to seem unprofessional/clumsy...
As to the question of first-name terms, I would never, EVER consider calling a WO, FS or Sgt by his/her first name until invited to do so. You respect their rank, and they will respect yours (if not necessarily the person wearing it).
NEVER confuse your rank with their experience.
As to the question of first-name terms, I would never, EVER consider calling a WO, FS or Sgt by his/her first name until invited to do so. You respect their rank, and they will respect yours (if not necessarily the person wearing it).
NEVER confuse your rank with their experience.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ecosse
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diplomacy and Tact cost nothing, but can gain a lot of respect
A mate of mine was a MACR (WO) for a year, and eventually aspired to Sqn Ldr
He was of the old school and, having been there himself, insisted on addressing WO's as Mr, unless he knew them personally, and then it was by first name
He always addressed the SWO as Mr ( if the post was male, even if he knew him personally) - if the SWO was female, it was Stn Warrant Officer, unless she relented and said "Just call me darling or Samantha"!
What annoyed him was that the percieved rank structure placed WO above MACR (groundcrew mentality), although they both shared the same wording on the Royal Warrant
The final arbiter was the Air Force List
He was promoted to MACR (accelerated 3 months) along with a mate (passed over 3 times) When they appeared on the same List for promotion- his mate claimed he was senior to him because his name appeared earlier in the List alphabetically ! Ha!
Knob becomes before Nob
Kitch, where are you?
A mate of mine was a MACR (WO) for a year, and eventually aspired to Sqn Ldr
He was of the old school and, having been there himself, insisted on addressing WO's as Mr, unless he knew them personally, and then it was by first name
He always addressed the SWO as Mr ( if the post was male, even if he knew him personally) - if the SWO was female, it was Stn Warrant Officer, unless she relented and said "Just call me darling or Samantha"!
What annoyed him was that the percieved rank structure placed WO above MACR (groundcrew mentality), although they both shared the same wording on the Royal Warrant
The final arbiter was the Air Force List
He was promoted to MACR (accelerated 3 months) along with a mate (passed over 3 times) When they appeared on the same List for promotion- his mate claimed he was senior to him because his name appeared earlier in the List alphabetically ! Ha!
Knob becomes before Nob
Kitch, where are you?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Pianosa
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Sadly, going a few posts back, I can vouch for the fact that not ALL WOs are professional enough to avoid allowing - or, indeed, to avoid causing - young officers to seem unprofessional/clumsy..."
I'm sure the old sweat with 30yrs service continues to be amazed by the new and exciting ways that a shiny new Plt Off/Fg Off can turn things into a dog's dinner in short order. Might even be one of the things that keeps him in.
"You will call me Sir, and I will call you Sir. The difference is that YOU will mean it!"
Last edited by Washington_Irving; 8th Dec 2005 at 18:51.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: ISLE OF MAN
Posts: 780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
has anyone else still got the blue pamphet from the 80's entitled'Officer Behaviour'? Had a picture on the front of a sword and sash winner outside CHOM.
I still pick it up for a read every now and then. Simple, decent manners, and guidance on social etiquette. If more people observed these simple rules then imho, the world would be a better place.
I'd love to see the latest version.
'When dressed in civilian attire, it is customary to pull one's hoodie off one's head before entering the bar area. A young officer should also be mindful that the RAF is somewhat reactionary in its customs, and alcopops may not be available in all messes. In those that do serve modern drinks, one should ALWAYS pour it into a glass'
I still pick it up for a read every now and then. Simple, decent manners, and guidance on social etiquette. If more people observed these simple rules then imho, the world would be a better place.
I'd love to see the latest version.
'When dressed in civilian attire, it is customary to pull one's hoodie off one's head before entering the bar area. A young officer should also be mindful that the RAF is somewhat reactionary in its customs, and alcopops may not be available in all messes. In those that do serve modern drinks, one should ALWAYS pour it into a glass'
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a similar vein, when meeting an Army WO1 for the first time, (so are unable to use the "Mr X" address, as you have no idea of his name) would one say "Good Morning, Warrant Officer" or "Good Morning, Sgt Major". And is there a difference if he was a WO2? Only 15 years on SH, and haven't worked that out yet!
For the definitive answer, I'd suggest reading the thread started by New_WO
Sorry, I edited it due to a waah-detector going off somewhere.
Let's cover it again. You'd call an Army Warrant Officer 'Sir' or 'Ma'am', as appropriate. An Officer might refer to him (or her) by their appointment, such as 'RSM', if they were aquainted.
Sorry, I edited it due to a waah-detector going off somewhere.
Let's cover it again. You'd call an Army Warrant Officer 'Sir' or 'Ma'am', as appropriate. An Officer might refer to him (or her) by their appointment, such as 'RSM', if they were aquainted.
Last edited by diginagain; 8th Dec 2005 at 21:39.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diginagain, think calling him "Sir" would raise a few eyebrows, but go on about Sgt Major being an appointment, it that sort of information I am after.
Don't think I could stand reading New_WO's thread again, the above questions do not apply there, a call of "Oi" would suffice in his case.
And then you went and edited your post while I was typing mine!
Don't think I could stand reading New_WO's thread again, the above questions do not apply there, a call of "Oi" would suffice in his case.
And then you went and edited your post while I was typing mine!
Sorry, Bud, I've changed it back. Ish. To use your example, you're meeting them for the first time, so you've no idea what appointment they hold, be it Sqn/Company/Band Sergeant Major or whatever, so 'Sir/Ma'am' is appropriate. The person on the receiving end will provide their preferred title.
They may be a WO without appointment, so while the honorific 'Sergeant Major' may please the recipient, it would not be quite correct.
Now, there are certain units who don't use the title Sergeant, but Corporal of Horse, but lets save that for a really slow night.
They may be a WO without appointment, so while the honorific 'Sergeant Major' may please the recipient, it would not be quite correct.
Now, there are certain units who don't use the title Sergeant, but Corporal of Horse, but lets save that for a really slow night.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry digin, maybe I was being too cryptic! They would call me Sir. Whereas one could easily say "Excuse me Sergeant" if attracting the attention of a SNCO I didn't know, "excuse me, Warrant Officer" seems very cumbersome. Up till now I've just stuck with Sgt Major, and haven't been shouted at yet, so I'll just run with that.
Ta anyway
Ta anyway
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like most of you folks need a tour on SH or Fixed wing as the thorny probs you are describing just don't exist.
Max,
I cannot imagine being at a social function and expecting those of a lower rank than me to call me by my rank..................get a life Sir
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Max,
I cannot imagine being at a social function and expecting those of a lower rank than me to call me by my rank..................get a life Sir
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry if I've missed this in the replies but anyone at Odiham in the early 90s would know Mrs T - the fantastic SWO - and even though I was a JO and we became good friends I NEVER referred to her as anything other than Mrs T - she (rightly) scared me too much! It was a no-brainer so can't see why this thread is so long - master aircrew and WOs earn the right to be referred to as Mr.Mrs.Miss depending on sex/status and that's all there is to it. Same in the Navy.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Red Red Back to Bed
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 2 RN WO's who did the rounds of the CVS Ops departments in the mid - late 90's (and more recently) were either Mr B or Mr G depending on who it was. Everyone called them that - it was a sign of respect as well as being quite proper in all aspects. I would assume if it had been a female, it would have been Mrs B or Mrs G (for example).
Both Mr B (now outside) and Mr G (still serving) were absolutely awesome and I have the greatest respect for both of them - they knew everyone, were a great bridge between the ops dept and the aircrew and a tremendous source of knowledge, expertise and downright good times when just shooting the breeze. Hats off to you both, gentlemen.
Oggin
Both Mr B (now outside) and Mr G (still serving) were absolutely awesome and I have the greatest respect for both of them - they knew everyone, were a great bridge between the ops dept and the aircrew and a tremendous source of knowledge, expertise and downright good times when just shooting the breeze. Hats off to you both, gentlemen.
Oggin
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lincs
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents,
She is MACR and therefore, as with most MACR (male or female) the chances are that she won't give a to$$ what you call her, as long as you have a smile on your face.
Just a word or warning tho' to all you sprog JOs - a MACR is NOT a WO, and to refer to one of them as such is a fate worse than death, believe me. Most of them (especially the big hairy-ar$ed male ones, will bite your head off!! - literally!! and shove it up your little bottoms!
Kind regards to all, especially ALL MACRs
TSM
She is MACR and therefore, as with most MACR (male or female) the chances are that she won't give a to$$ what you call her, as long as you have a smile on your face.
Just a word or warning tho' to all you sprog JOs - a MACR is NOT a WO, and to refer to one of them as such is a fate worse than death, believe me. Most of them (especially the big hairy-ar$ed male ones, will bite your head off!! - literally!! and shove it up your little bottoms!
Kind regards to all, especially ALL MACRs
TSM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cannot imagine being at a social function and expecting those of a lower rank than me to call me by my rank
ABIW, you're fully entitled to that opinion and your own policy but I suggest that it is a slightly different matter between a sneck (as I assume you are) and the lads compared to a hoffisuh and the lads. The point is that I respect the rank of other members of the forces, higher and lower (especially Masters/WOs whose experience is much greater than mine) and expect the same in return. The way the members of an SH to 2Gp crew interact is quite a separate issue from the RAF at large.
I alluded to frickin' call centres earlier. When you're on the blower to some corporation and the converstaion goes something like:
"We just need to verify your details. Can I have your name please"
"Mr Stout"
"And your first name"
"Max"
"Hi Max, can I interest you in......"
Tell me that does not grip your sh1t. Politeness and formality should be the norm until it is appropriate to dispense with it.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the newest airman on station found himself sitting in a restaurant at a table adjacent to the Staish should it be "Evening, Sir" or "Alright, Harry
No, No. It should be " Good evening Mr Staish, Darling, can I introduce you to the station Commander, Harry Staish"
I junior airman would never ever call an officer sir whilst off duty.