Terms of address?
 

Silly question.
I thought I knew the answer to this, but..........

One of our junior officers asked how she should address a female MACR?
For a male, it would be Warrant Officer or Mr Smith, if she knew his name.
However, appart from the formal Warrant Officer, is there an equivelent to Mr Smith for female MACR or Warrant Officers for that matter? Miss Smith, Mrs Smith or Ms Smith????

:confused:

Easy -

If it moves, salute it and call it "Sir".

If it doesn't move, Paint it !


In all seriousness, how about finding out her first name and calling her by her first name ?

I wouldn't dive in with the first name term just yet, keep it formal and you can always "de-formalise" (may have just created a word there - more likely a new spelling anyway) later. "Ms/Mrs Smith" and or "MACR Smith".

I'd be very wary of leaping in with a first-name approach with a MACR or WO. How about asking her how she'd prefer to be addressed? Just pray she doesn't reply "Ma'am"!!!

I relly dont think its respectful to call a warrant officer by their first name. Just a personal view. Interested to see if anyones got the answer to the question.

No first names. Ask her how she would like to be addressed.

Have you ever been in the Armed Forces, Southside?
Didn't think so.


Introduce yourself: "Hello, I am Air Marshall Sir Hugh G Rection*, how would you like me and my subordinate officers to address you?"
*Insert own details here.

She will say "Mrs/Miss* Swollocks, Sir, but my name is Betty".
*Delete as applicable.

"Good Mrs Swollocks. Get your knickers on and make me a cup of tea. Now."



Job done. Formal and informal terms of address known. Sorted.

I don't think there is anything wrong with first names between a JO and WO / MACR, depending on the situation.

Now the SWO on the other hand . .. . .


Just my thoughts . . . . . . . . ..

Many moons ago was given a sound piece of advice by my then Wg Cdr:

If you ever think of calling a WO by his first name, take the rest of the day off and think about it. He has climbed to the top of his pile, you are at the bottom of yours, he deserves your respect for that.

Always worked for me, even when I was at a Stn with a female SWO.

To sort out the feeling of discomfort, why not establish between them what to do?

sw

"Wench!"

:p


Of course in the a/c it's easier "Eng" or "Loadie" etc. Or, around the sqn, by 'handle' if you must stoop to such Top Gun-isms.

It'd be interesting to know the correct answer, personally I think that "Ma'am Smith" might be rather better than "Mrs Smith" or the wretched bra-burners' style "Mizz Smith"?

FFP

That is why Warrant Officers hate JO's. They don't think.

Ma'am Smith would seem to be appropriate, until told otherwise! Certainly more in a military stylee than mzzz smith.

As for no first names, depends on the situation... am on first name terms as a JO with a couple of WOs, and haven't had my head removed yet! Although all comments about the SWO absolutely true... what do you do when the station can't afford a SWO and settles for a F/S?

Im not quite sure what a MACR is but Im assuming that its close to a WO....

I have a question though, would you call a SAC by his/her first name?

In the Andrew a MAA is called Joss....regardless of their gender.

As I understand this, we are talking about a WO that we are not on familiar terms with?

If I were working/knew a WO very well, I would have thought first names would be fine - as pba_target suggests.

If I didn't know them, then as with anyone, first names would be inappropriate. I don't know how I'd address a female WO, never been in that situation.

There seems to be a growing divide here. If I were to meet a WO or NCO or even a young lad at a social event i would introduce myself as " Hi, I'm Bill Bloggs". I would never, ever dream of calling myself "Hi, I'm Lt Cdr Bloggs". Why....cos "Lt Cdr" is not my name.....



If I were to meet a WO or NCO or even a young lad at work then I introduce myself as "Lt Cdr"....

southside's outed himself.
Sea cadets a tad dull?
:E

OK, but I wouldn't expect an LAC or SAC to be calling me or any other officer by my first name, social function or not.

The implication of the question was when at work. Would you still recommendMasters and WOs on your own sqn, who you know well and work with - possibly (although I think some fresh faced Pilot Officer, two weeks out of Cranwell calling a long-service-good-conduct medalled Master crewman with 10000hrs and two rows of campaign medals by his first name is wholly inappropriate). The SWO and other MACRs and WOs - no way.


A good Officer should take his lead, in all aspects of chappism and service life, from classic British war films, such as 'The Battle Of Britain' (1969). Susannah York, even in a fit of rage, replies to the SWO: "Don't you shout at me, Mr Warrick!". Therein lies your answer.

Why wouldn't you like an SAC or LAC to call you by your name?

I have to admit to finding this utterly bizarre that the RAF still utilise the social graces of Guy Gibson and his merry bunch. Maybe you should have watched last nights TV programme to see how Officers and Men work together as a team.

I walk away.

Mr Vice is always MR Vice (regardless of gender) therefore Mr (insert WO name) is always MR - regardless of gender.

.....I'll stand corrected if necessary.

.

Because it is unmilitary. It shows a level of informality and lack of respect which is almost always inappropriate in military circles. Use of my first name is reserved for my friends and peers, from whom I do not expect or want a continuous level of formality. I do not expect LACs, double glazing call centre operators, bank clerks, or others to make an assumption that they are my best friend.

The rank structure of the RAF is directly descended from that of the Royal Navy. The RN And British Army rank structure has worked very effectively for the best part of 1000 years, and has been copied by almost every nation on earth. If it ain't broke.....

Even the commies, where everyone was apparently equal, had a structure of Officers and Other Ranks. The system worked quite perfectly for 'Guy Gibson and his merry bunch ' during the greatest aerial conflict ever seen, so no, it does not need to be changed. I really don't think that if the Armed Forces were run as a democratic syndicate of equal partners all calling each other Max and South, they would be at all effective. Surely you were taught about leadership structures at Dartmouth, Lt Cdr Side?

By the way, unlike your good self, I don't need to watch TV to see how Officers and Men can work together in an operational environment. I've flown big green multi-crew helicopters on a number of operational dets with embedded engineering and support staff, so I know exactly how Officers and Men work to gether in peacetime and on Ops.

Just what do you do Southside? Where was your last det? A lentil-eating, comfortable shoe wearing, Stop The War rally, where everyone uses first names and there is no heirachy? With a command structure like that you'll have global domination in no time.

Best wishes,

Fg Off Stout