Tornado Crash in Sea Off St Andrews
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C152 was a FI from Dundee (ex RAF too!). Requested to overfly by Leuchars. Saw the fuel slick and one of the Tornado crew must have seen the spam can because he popped a flare.
C152 stayed overhead till the helo arrived 1 hour later.
All rather ironic considering we'd all (ie Tayside & Fife flying club) attended a MCASD at Leuchars two weeks before, and had an excellent presentation on distress proceedures.
Obviously the helo would have found them without any assistance from the 152, but it must have been some comfort to have had the Cessna circling overhead.
Info taken from the Dundee Courier, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.
C152 stayed overhead till the helo arrived 1 hour later.
All rather ironic considering we'd all (ie Tayside & Fife flying club) attended a MCASD at Leuchars two weeks before, and had an excellent presentation on distress proceedures.
Obviously the helo would have found them without any assistance from the 152, but it must have been some comfort to have had the Cessna circling overhead.
Info taken from the Dundee Courier, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.
Victor B1a
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Additions to the wardrobe.
On the positive side the boys get two ties each. One from Bartin-Baker and one for arriving in the ogin.
As for Mod spokespersons and the rumour mongers in the press corps nothing has changed.
As for Mod spokespersons and the rumour mongers in the press corps nothing has changed.
Speculation
Reading a thread like this it makes you wonder where alot of people get their info from.
When you know a few details about an incident like this, it becomes readily apparent that most people don't have a bl00dy clue what they're on about!
I know it's a rumour website but speculating or making stuff up about aircraft accidents is neither sensible or constructive.
BV
When you know a few details about an incident like this, it becomes readily apparent that most people don't have a bl00dy clue what they're on about!
I know it's a rumour website but speculating or making stuff up about aircraft accidents is neither sensible or constructive.
BV
dmussen....
Sorry to correct you but only one tie.
But they do get a nice gold silkworm brooch from IRVIN for using one of their parachutes and a nice little pin with (depending on your view) a dolphin or a goldfish from Beaufort for using the dingy.
Sorry to correct you but only one tie.
But they do get a nice gold silkworm brooch from IRVIN for using one of their parachutes and a nice little pin with (depending on your view) a dolphin or a goldfish from Beaufort for using the dingy.
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It wasn't a JEngO in the back seat.........
It didn't go quiet before they left...........
So much misinformation...........
JUST LET THE BOARD DO THEIR JOB
It didn't go quiet before they left...........
So much misinformation...........
JUST LET THE BOARD DO THEIR JOB
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Well done to all involved -
-prompt response from rescue agencies
-good drills from pilot and PAX (not a JEngO, he wears chevrons on his shoulders I hear, but irrelevant anyway), especially the pax seeing as he would only know them from watching the video briefing!
-well done to the press for doing the usual misinformation that helps rumour control stir things up!
-well done to the back seater for getting 2 trips in one day (3 if you include the 'Martin-Baker airways' one). I hope you like the tie-pin!
On a sober note, I hope all goes well with the inquiry, and that it doesn't turn into a witch hunt. Having had (much lesser) experience of such matters, I know it can be a huge worry. Let's hope it's quick and proper.
Get well (and flying) soon to the two guys...
-prompt response from rescue agencies
-good drills from pilot and PAX (not a JEngO, he wears chevrons on his shoulders I hear, but irrelevant anyway), especially the pax seeing as he would only know them from watching the video briefing!
-well done to the press for doing the usual misinformation that helps rumour control stir things up!
-well done to the back seater for getting 2 trips in one day (3 if you include the 'Martin-Baker airways' one). I hope you like the tie-pin!
On a sober note, I hope all goes well with the inquiry, and that it doesn't turn into a witch hunt. Having had (much lesser) experience of such matters, I know it can be a huge worry. Let's hope it's quick and proper.
Get well (and flying) soon to the two guys...
Wardrobe Correction
jimgriff and dmussen must inform you on the things likely to be coming to the crew.
Martin Baker - membership to the tie club, a tie, certificate, patch and pin. Lunch in the chalet at Farnboro' whenever they want.
Beaufort - membership to the Porpoise Club, a tie, and a certificate.
Sadly I don't think they'll get a Caterpillar. The club is specifcally for those that owe their life to an Irvin (silk) parachute. IIRC the Tornado seat has a parachute made by GQ - so no cigar.
I also got a tie from Grasby Electronics who made the beacon, so they might whoever it is makes their radio today.
One of everything is sufficient, its greedy to get two. Dooh!
Tarnished
Martin Baker - membership to the tie club, a tie, certificate, patch and pin. Lunch in the chalet at Farnboro' whenever they want.
Beaufort - membership to the Porpoise Club, a tie, and a certificate.
Sadly I don't think they'll get a Caterpillar. The club is specifcally for those that owe their life to an Irvin (silk) parachute. IIRC the Tornado seat has a parachute made by GQ - so no cigar.
I also got a tie from Grasby Electronics who made the beacon, so they might whoever it is makes their radio today.
One of everything is sufficient, its greedy to get two. Dooh!
Tarnished
Tarnished,
They do get the silkworm brooch (catapillar club). The MB 10 seat is fitted with the Irvin-GQ 1000, 2000 or 6000 aeroconical parachute (or a derivitive thereof. Suppose it depends on what the regpackers have in stock!) and when I was at the factory a month or so ago I asked if the brooch was still issued and was informed that it was.
If you didnt get one for your last MB letdown, you should write to them and have tham send you one.
They do get the silkworm brooch (catapillar club). The MB 10 seat is fitted with the Irvin-GQ 1000, 2000 or 6000 aeroconical parachute (or a derivitive thereof. Suppose it depends on what the regpackers have in stock!) and when I was at the factory a month or so ago I asked if the brooch was still issued and was informed that it was.
If you didnt get one for your last MB letdown, you should write to them and have tham send you one.
jimgriff
You know very well that both my let downs were Irvin assisted, so was able to replace the lost caterpillar on grounds of insanity.
But I am right that for a while, GQ, before it was bought out/taken over by Irvin were not at liberty to issue Irvin's protected caterpillar to Mk 10+ users. Wonder if they will do it in retrospect? The Mk 10 used to simply have a GQ chute, not a Irvin GQ chute, such is the way of life in the dog eat dog world of corporate takeovers.
Much the same to me as calling an F-15 a bleeding Boeing aircraft its a McDD F-15 for goodness sake.
Tarnished
You know very well that both my let downs were Irvin assisted, so was able to replace the lost caterpillar on grounds of insanity.
But I am right that for a while, GQ, before it was bought out/taken over by Irvin were not at liberty to issue Irvin's protected caterpillar to Mk 10+ users. Wonder if they will do it in retrospect? The Mk 10 used to simply have a GQ chute, not a Irvin GQ chute, such is the way of life in the dog eat dog world of corporate takeovers.
Much the same to me as calling an F-15 a bleeding Boeing aircraft its a McDD F-15 for goodness sake.
Tarnished
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Latest misinformation from the press
Daily Record Article
EXCLUSIVE: OOPS
RAF probe ejector seat cock-up theory after £20m jet crashes
By James Moncur
THE RAF are to probe why a £20million Tornado crashed into the sea.
And sources said one theory being considered was the fighter jet passenger accidentally ejected himself and the pilot.
The passenger, a sergeant who worked as an engineer at RAF Leuchars in Fife, had been granted the flight as a present after announcing his retirement.
But just two minutes into the flight, the jet, flown by a member of 111 Squadron, ditched into the sea on Friday, October 14.
Unusually for an incident in which both crew members have survived without serious injury, the identities of both men have been kept secret.
Last night, as salvage experts prepared to recover the plane, which is lying in 40 feet of water, sources on the base claimed the sergeant may have triggered the dual ejection system accidentally.
One said: "The sergeant's possible role in this crash is the talk of the base.
"This sort of thing has happened in the past, especially with inexperienced flyers.
"In some cases, the guy in the back thinks he is about to crash and pulls the handle when the pilot is in complete control. The Tornado is fitted with a dual ejection system in case the pilot gets incapacitated and the navigator has to save both of them.
"There are different set-ups but the dual system is the most common."
Aviation expert Paul Jackson, editor of Jane's All The World's Aircraft, confirmed passengers in the back seat of Tornados can eject both crew members A spokesman for RAF Leuchars confirmed that the passenger was a sergeant at the end of his career.
He said it wasn't unusual for other ranks to be invited to fly in the back seat of the jets and said every month a ballot was held to decide who would go up.
The spokesman added: "We can't speculate about what caused this incident."
An MoD spokesman said: "A board of inquiry has been set up to work out exactly what caused the crash. They'll look at everything from a technical fault to human error
Daily Record
EXCLUSIVE: OOPS
RAF probe ejector seat cock-up theory after £20m jet crashes
By James Moncur
THE RAF are to probe why a £20million Tornado crashed into the sea.
And sources said one theory being considered was the fighter jet passenger accidentally ejected himself and the pilot.
The passenger, a sergeant who worked as an engineer at RAF Leuchars in Fife, had been granted the flight as a present after announcing his retirement.
But just two minutes into the flight, the jet, flown by a member of 111 Squadron, ditched into the sea on Friday, October 14.
Unusually for an incident in which both crew members have survived without serious injury, the identities of both men have been kept secret.
Last night, as salvage experts prepared to recover the plane, which is lying in 40 feet of water, sources on the base claimed the sergeant may have triggered the dual ejection system accidentally.
One said: "The sergeant's possible role in this crash is the talk of the base.
"This sort of thing has happened in the past, especially with inexperienced flyers.
"In some cases, the guy in the back thinks he is about to crash and pulls the handle when the pilot is in complete control. The Tornado is fitted with a dual ejection system in case the pilot gets incapacitated and the navigator has to save both of them.
"There are different set-ups but the dual system is the most common."
Aviation expert Paul Jackson, editor of Jane's All The World's Aircraft, confirmed passengers in the back seat of Tornados can eject both crew members A spokesman for RAF Leuchars confirmed that the passenger was a sergeant at the end of his career.
He said it wasn't unusual for other ranks to be invited to fly in the back seat of the jets and said every month a ballot was held to decide who would go up.
The spokesman added: "We can't speculate about what caused this incident."
An MoD spokesman said: "A board of inquiry has been set up to work out exactly what caused the crash. They'll look at everything from a technical fault to human error
Daily Record
I recall a Fighter Controller accidentally banging out of a Hawk on exercise from Wattisham in the early 1980s. Fortunately the command eject valve had been selected off before flight, so the pilot wasn't ejected and was able to land the aircraft safely - I was down on the ORP at the time and watched it land with the bang seat pole sticking out of the rear cockpit.....
What did surprise me was the amount of damage the canopy perspex caused to the aircraft.
What did surprise me was the amount of damage the canopy perspex caused to the aircraft.
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Tornado crash of St Andrews
Daily Record 24 Oct 05. Quote:RAF probe ejector seat cock-up theory after£20m jet crashes. Know the back seater very well. BOI ongoing. Experienced PAX. Journalistic bolleaux. Thanx BEagle for use of common sense. Both crew are well.
I recall a Fighter Controller accidentally banging out of a Hawk on exercise from Wattisham in the early 1980s
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LB,
Maybe I've missed BEagle's (normal) words of wisdom here, but I don't see any common sense, just narration. Was it rapidly edited?
sw
Thanx BEagle for use of common sense.
sw
I merely sought to make the point that, although backseat passengers were often carried in the Hawk, selection of the command ejection valve to the 'off' position meant that, should an accidental back seat ejection occur, it would be unlikely to lead to the loss of the a/c.
Whether the Tornado has a command ejection system I have no idea. But I'm sure that appropriate bang seat SOPs are in place to ensure that the nonsense spouted by this journo simply could not have happened.
Leave it to the BoI.....
Whether the Tornado has a command ejection system I have no idea. But I'm sure that appropriate bang seat SOPs are in place to ensure that the nonsense spouted by this journo simply could not have happened.
Leave it to the BoI.....
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Beags,
It has a similar system, operated from the rear, and I believe SOPs were changed from having it set to BOTH for exactly this kind of reason. ie if the pilot goes, no matter what, the back seat goes too, but if the back seat decided to leave, the pilot would still be left behind.
sw
It has a similar system, operated from the rear, and I believe SOPs were changed from having it set to BOTH for exactly this kind of reason. ie if the pilot goes, no matter what, the back seat goes too, but if the back seat decided to leave, the pilot would still be left behind.
sw
Making no comment on this particular case but the Tornado DOES have a command eject system that is selectable. For PAX rides the crew-in consists of making sure it is selected to REAR (ie if the guy in the back pulls the handle, only he goes).
In other words - typical journalistic bollaux
In other words - typical journalistic bollaux
