Al-Qa'eda gets the RAF's message
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Pontious,
It was a different attack to the one you read about earlier, everything got a little bit hectic out here around the election period. All things considered it was pretty accurate reporting in the newspapers.
It was a different attack to the one you read about earlier, everything got a little bit hectic out here around the election period. All things considered it was pretty accurate reporting in the newspapers.
Flatus
The trouble with the 'Apologists for murder Brigade' on this and other fora is that they can never come up with an answer to the question: "if this man really was a suspected suicide bomber, then why was he allowed to make a bus journey, and why was he not apprehended in the open, where whatever he had on him would have presented less of a danger to the public?" Nor to the question as to why this Brazilian was mistaken for an Islamist terrorist? (Sorry, but he was brown and lived in the wrong building does not excuse this kind of crass incompetence). Nor to the question as to who approved a policy that allowed these half wits to dispense with the procedure of issuing a warning before opening fire, nor to the question about what safeguards are in place to protect the public from a police force that has plenty of 'previous' when it comes to indiscriminate gunplay and the murder of entirely innocent passers by.
The trouble with the 'Apologists for murder Brigade' on this and other fora is that they can never come up with an answer to the question: "if this man really was a suspected suicide bomber, then why was he allowed to make a bus journey, and why was he not apprehended in the open, where whatever he had on him would have presented less of a danger to the public?" Nor to the question as to why this Brazilian was mistaken for an Islamist terrorist? (Sorry, but he was brown and lived in the wrong building does not excuse this kind of crass incompetence). Nor to the question as to who approved a policy that allowed these half wits to dispense with the procedure of issuing a warning before opening fire, nor to the question about what safeguards are in place to protect the public from a police force that has plenty of 'previous' when it comes to indiscriminate gunplay and the murder of entirely innocent passers by.
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I suspect that the fairly recent revelations by an ex-SAS chap who trained the armed police have some relevance. He described many of them as far too gung ho and psychologically and physically unfit for the job. He also pointed out that the SAS were not allowed to fail them.
It might also be relevant that an earlier interception was not made apparently because the armed response unit that these cowboys belonged to was not yet in place to screw things up.
It might also be relevant that an earlier interception was not made apparently because the armed response unit that these cowboys belonged to was not yet in place to screw things up.
In an attempt to get this thread back on track……………………………….
How were the insurgents supposed to differentiate the “warning” bomb into an adjacent field from all of the “Rockets and bombs exploding around them” that they supposedly sat and watched as they held off the Aussie SAS for “several hours”?
The whole article reeks of a 1960’s Commando comic!
(Excellent value for 6d I thought)
How were the insurgents supposed to differentiate the “warning” bomb into an adjacent field from all of the “Rockets and bombs exploding around them” that they supposedly sat and watched as they held off the Aussie SAS for “several hours”?
The whole article reeks of a 1960’s Commando comic!
(Excellent value for 6d I thought)
FIVE shillings? Outrageous!
Wagon wheels were bigger then too.................................
Wagon wheels were bigger then too.................................
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Casper, thanks for that.
I was reflecting on an earlier operation where we did not drop weapons and that makes an interesting contrast.
Until weapons are actually dropped the enemy does not know what to expect - shock and awe - once the action starts it is accepted that a population soon becomes inured to the violent and life resumes as normal - the blitz - Serbia etc.
The 1 000lb demo is 'not in my backyard' and this easily ignored. They have had 25 years of violence and near misses. Perhaps more effective after 25 years of violence is a simple strike from the Gods and leave it at that.
I was reflecting on an earlier operation where we did not drop weapons and that makes an interesting contrast.
Until weapons are actually dropped the enemy does not know what to expect - shock and awe - once the action starts it is accepted that a population soon becomes inured to the violent and life resumes as normal - the blitz - Serbia etc.
The 1 000lb demo is 'not in my backyard' and this easily ignored. They have had 25 years of violence and near misses. Perhaps more effective after 25 years of violence is a simple strike from the Gods and leave it at that.
Noticed in WH Smiths today that Commando mags are now £1 each! (I'm of the 5p each era). The language inside hasn't been brought up to date with yoofspeak I'm pleased to report!
Suspicion breeds confidence
Pr00ne is right; all confectionary products were bigger in the 60s (or maybe my hands were smaller 
) As for Commando is was a damn fine publication scoring very highly alongside other equally fine publications such as Warlord and Battle.
) As for Commando is was a damn fine publication scoring very highly alongside other equally fine publications such as Warlord and Battle.
Commando? Good grief, no, 'Air Ace Picture Library' at 1/- each were the best! Kingstons on the bridge in Taunton used to sell them, as well as model aircraft etc. But Kingston was a shrewd old chap as he also sold things like 'Parade' and 'Health and Efficiency' which, whilst being something of a mystery to a 10 year old, were like gold dust at boarding school a few years later...
However, I find it hard to feel much sympathy for the elimination of a cave full of Al Q'aeda terrorists.
However, I find it hard to feel much sympathy for the elimination of a cave full of Al Q'aeda terrorists.
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Sorry mods, I'm straying off topic so feel free to junk it, but this sort of rubbish can't be allowed to pass unanswered
Having personally lived in São Paulo permanently for the last four years I can tell you that this is complete b
cks in every respect.
JNo, go and have a beer or something.
Having personally lived in Sao Paulo off and on over the last few decades, the Police regularly (well at least monthly…) round up and kill upwards of 30 people a night for even the slightest of crimes (sleeping in the street etc) to which there is never a comeuppance.
cks in every respect. JNo, go and have a beer or something.
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You can't be watching too much news then can you.
"...A study by the Institute for Religious Studies (ISER) concluded that 10 percent of all Rio de Janeiro homicides were civilians killed by police. The ISER study also documented that in a sample of 697 cases of fatal police shootings between 1993 and 1996, Rio de Janeiro police officers rarely fired to immobilize rather than kill; half of the victims were killed with four or more bullets, and the majority of victims were shot in either the shoulders or the head. Forty cases clearly demonstrated execution-style deaths, where victims were first immobilized and then shot at close range. Victims were generally young, black, and without criminal records. Human rights groups continued to criticize "bravery" awards conferred by the Rio de Janeiro authorities which have had the effect of encouraging police to use excessive force..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4415775.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1415178.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4403221.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/886661.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/886661.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3593920.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3766779.stm
http://newsfromrussia.com/society/2005/08/29/61911.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7358148/
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...72191FCDE8.htm
http://www.cabarfeidh.com/2005/08/he...an-police.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_431284.htm
Oh, and courtesy of Private Eye; "30 - the number of hours it took the Brazilian Government to respond to their citizen's death in London. 30 - the number of civilians shot dead in one day by Brazilian police in a crackdown on drugs in a city slum last month."
It's amazing how much you can pick up with one 5 minute search. Alemaobaiano, I suggest you take your head out of....er....the sand.
"...A study by the Institute for Religious Studies (ISER) concluded that 10 percent of all Rio de Janeiro homicides were civilians killed by police. The ISER study also documented that in a sample of 697 cases of fatal police shootings between 1993 and 1996, Rio de Janeiro police officers rarely fired to immobilize rather than kill; half of the victims were killed with four or more bullets, and the majority of victims were shot in either the shoulders or the head. Forty cases clearly demonstrated execution-style deaths, where victims were first immobilized and then shot at close range. Victims were generally young, black, and without criminal records. Human rights groups continued to criticize "bravery" awards conferred by the Rio de Janeiro authorities which have had the effect of encouraging police to use excessive force..."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4415775.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1415178.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4403221.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/886661.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/886661.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3593920.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3766779.stm
http://newsfromrussia.com/society/2005/08/29/61911.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7358148/
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...72191FCDE8.htm
http://www.cabarfeidh.com/2005/08/he...an-police.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_431284.htm
Oh, and courtesy of Private Eye; "30 - the number of hours it took the Brazilian Government to respond to their citizen's death in London. 30 - the number of civilians shot dead in one day by Brazilian police in a crackdown on drugs in a city slum last month."
It's amazing how much you can pick up with one 5 minute search. Alemaobaiano, I suggest you take your head out of....er....the sand.
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Jackonicko
The questions you ask are, I expect, the very ones to which the IPCC is trying to find an answer. I suspect the answers may include cumbersome RoE and Release Procedures for your first question, or a good old-fashioned cock-up.
T o your second question I expect the "half-wits" had sufficient wits to realise that any sort of "warning" issued would trigger the very event they were trying to prevent.
All is not perfect, but it seems to me that the "bleeding hearts" really believe that we should give up policing suicidal terrorism. Which would signal the collapse of the State.
Could you now please answer my question? What would you have done if you were one of the "half wits"?
The questions you ask are, I expect, the very ones to which the IPCC is trying to find an answer. I suspect the answers may include cumbersome RoE and Release Procedures for your first question, or a good old-fashioned cock-up.
T o your second question I expect the "half-wits" had sufficient wits to realise that any sort of "warning" issued would trigger the very event they were trying to prevent.
All is not perfect, but it seems to me that the "bleeding hearts" really believe that we should give up policing suicidal terrorism. Which would signal the collapse of the State.
Could you now please answer my question? What would you have done if you were one of the "half wits"?
Certainly.
If I were so half witted that I couldn't tell the difference between a Latino and an Arab or a Pakistani, then I'd have made absolutely sure that my suspect did not get on to a bus, and if I failed to do that then I'd certainly have prevented him going into an underground station, and if I failed to do that then I wouldn't have let him get on a tube train.
And since he was wearing clothes that could not have covered a bomb, and since he was carrying nothing more dangerous than a free paper, and since I'd been observing him for long enough to see if he had detonators concealed in his hand, I don't think I'd have felt it necessary to murder him.
And were I in command of these half wits I wouldn't have allowed all the bulls.hit about 'vaulting ticket barriers', 'big bulky jackets' and ignoring warnings to go unchallenged, and to appear to have come from official sources.
And I wouldn't have used PCs who were "far too gung ho and psychologically and physically unfit for the job", who the SAS were not allowed to fail.
Now if he had been the right ethnic profile, had he had a rucksack or a bulky jacket, had he been acting remotely suspiciously, then maybe I would agree that shooting him was the best option. But given the circumstances, it was as disgraceful a f*** up as the shooting of Waldorf was.
If I were so half witted that I couldn't tell the difference between a Latino and an Arab or a Pakistani, then I'd have made absolutely sure that my suspect did not get on to a bus, and if I failed to do that then I'd certainly have prevented him going into an underground station, and if I failed to do that then I wouldn't have let him get on a tube train.
And since he was wearing clothes that could not have covered a bomb, and since he was carrying nothing more dangerous than a free paper, and since I'd been observing him for long enough to see if he had detonators concealed in his hand, I don't think I'd have felt it necessary to murder him.
And were I in command of these half wits I wouldn't have allowed all the bulls.hit about 'vaulting ticket barriers', 'big bulky jackets' and ignoring warnings to go unchallenged, and to appear to have come from official sources.
And I wouldn't have used PCs who were "far too gung ho and psychologically and physically unfit for the job", who the SAS were not allowed to fail.
Now if he had been the right ethnic profile, had he had a rucksack or a bulky jacket, had he been acting remotely suspiciously, then maybe I would agree that shooting him was the best option. But given the circumstances, it was as disgraceful a f*** up as the shooting of Waldorf was.
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JNo, strangely I do watch the news, here in Brazil, and I don't have my head in the sand, or anywhere else for that matter.
I didn't claim that this country is free of crime, but you stated that the police round up and execute 30 people every night in São Paulo with impunity. Last time I looked Rio de Janeiro was a different city. Now you are quoting 10 year old statistics to show your "local" knowledge.
Your links cover three recent cases, all of which have seen the guilty officers arrested, a prison riot where inmates killed inmates and Carandiru, which is from 1992 and was very much down to the state government at the time.
As for your Private Eye quote, wrong as usual. It wasn't a police crackdown, it was corrupt cops fighting for control of drugs, in Rio de Janeiro, not São Paulo.
It's not quite what you said in your original post is it?
It's amazing what you can discover if you spend a little more than 5 minutes searching, like facts maybe. But why spoil a good rant with facts?
I didn't claim that this country is free of crime, but you stated that the police round up and execute 30 people every night in São Paulo with impunity. Last time I looked Rio de Janeiro was a different city. Now you are quoting 10 year old statistics to show your "local" knowledge.
Your links cover three recent cases, all of which have seen the guilty officers arrested, a prison riot where inmates killed inmates and Carandiru, which is from 1992 and was very much down to the state government at the time.
As for your Private Eye quote, wrong as usual. It wasn't a police crackdown, it was corrupt cops fighting for control of drugs, in Rio de Janeiro, not São Paulo.
It's not quite what you said in your original post is it?
It's amazing what you can discover if you spend a little more than 5 minutes searching, like facts maybe. But why spoil a good rant with facts?
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My point was aimed at the Brazilian police force as a whole not specifically SP Pol but since you mentioned it...
They've been 442 fatal police shootings in SP since 2002.
That works out a one police killing every 2.5 days! These statistics cover less than 11% of the national population of 185 million. SP isn't even the worst place in Brasil for such killings either.
I'd hardly say it's uncommon would you? Pretty recent as well wouldn't you say?
Where are your facts? Keep pitching them down and I'll keep knocking them to the boundary.
They've been 442 fatal police shootings in SP since 2002.
That works out a one police killing every 2.5 days! These statistics cover less than 11% of the national population of 185 million. SP isn't even the worst place in Brasil for such killings either.
I'd hardly say it's uncommon would you? Pretty recent as well wouldn't you say?
Where are your facts? Keep pitching them down and I'll keep knocking them to the boundary.
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Ladies and Gentlemen.......
...in the blue corner - alemaobaiano, and in the red corner - JNo
....let's see who can p*ss the furthest, or - alternatively LETS GET THE THREAD BACK ON TOPIC!!
....let's see who can p*ss the furthest, or - alternatively LETS GET THE THREAD BACK ON TOPIC!!
