UASs CUT
Join Date: Jun 2003
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So then BEagle, you're taking 2nd hand info as gen., as always. I've had the briefs first hand and although on the surface, it does seem like a bad idea, it really is not. It is not that I have been brainwashed, it is just that with all the information to hand, I have come to the conclusion that it is not all doom and gloom but that there are an awful lot of positives to come out of the Marston Plan
"Example, some of the guys have just come back from a bit of a walk and canoe in the Black Mountains area (Lord Hereford's Knob and all that). Yes, there was an element of damp tents and Rat-packs about it, but they all had a right old laugh getting through it and learnt a load about themselves."
All very laudable - and the sort of thing I did in the CCF or at Cranwell.
But it hardly puts much Air into University Air Squadron, does it?
I believe you mean an 'expeditionary' air force, Large D, rather than an 'expeditious' one? Or did you mean 'expedient'? That'd be very worrying.....
And cock-anally, as I'm now a civilian it's pretty self-evident that I don't get briefed at first hand, isn't it?
All very laudable - and the sort of thing I did in the CCF or at Cranwell.
But it hardly puts much Air into University Air Squadron, does it?
I believe you mean an 'expeditionary' air force, Large D, rather than an 'expeditious' one? Or did you mean 'expedient'? That'd be very worrying.....
And cock-anally, as I'm now a civilian it's pretty self-evident that I don't get briefed at first hand, isn't it?
Last edited by BEagle; 24th Sep 2005 at 11:27.
Such sparkling and well-honed wit. Is this a typical example of the 'kewl-yoof cuwcha' now allowed into a once fine Service?
In answer to your question, no.
In answer to your question, no.
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Like many, I was following the UAS situtation with trepidation. I'm (reasonably) recently ex-UAS and didn't find the currency issue a major problem. In fact I was told that this was taken into account at streaming boards - was that not the case, Large Dave?
When I heard the expected decision had been made a few days ago, my initial reaction was similar to that of Beagle's - another ill-informed decision from higher echelons that would have short term benefits but long-term disadvantages. However, having read some of the comments regarding recruiting, I suspect (and hope) that my fears may have been unfounded. If the posted syllabus is accurate, then it will still give a good grounding for the UAS guys and girls when they go to JEFTS; if the 30 hours can be supplemented due to another's lack of interest, all the better.
All in all, if the interest at freshers' fairs keeps up (and if not, I', ready to be shot down), there is a chance that the UASs can benefit from these changes, as painful as it is for me to say so.
One quick question - are the 10 hours a year available to any member? If so, surely there must be some medicial before sending people solo?
Regards,
The premier squadron to fly from Wyton
When I heard the expected decision had been made a few days ago, my initial reaction was similar to that of Beagle's - another ill-informed decision from higher echelons that would have short term benefits but long-term disadvantages. However, having read some of the comments regarding recruiting, I suspect (and hope) that my fears may have been unfounded. If the posted syllabus is accurate, then it will still give a good grounding for the UAS guys and girls when they go to JEFTS; if the 30 hours can be supplemented due to another's lack of interest, all the better.
All in all, if the interest at freshers' fairs keeps up (and if not, I', ready to be shot down), there is a chance that the UASs can benefit from these changes, as painful as it is for me to say so.
One quick question - are the 10 hours a year available to any member? If so, surely there must be some medicial before sending people solo?
Regards,
The premier squadron to fly from Wyton
Join Date: Jun 2003
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The flying is available for anyone. Even those who are already sponsored in a non-flying branch.
The med will give them A3G1Z1, which roughly equates to similar to a PPL med. Basically, if they can walk to the RMC thats a pass.
The hrs are recommended to be taken in 'lumps' to give a certain amount of continuity and as I said before there is no cap on the amount of hrs per person.
It has been quite a while since i have been described as a yoof - Thanks.
The med will give them A3G1Z1, which roughly equates to similar to a PPL med. Basically, if they can walk to the RMC thats a pass.
The hrs are recommended to be taken in 'lumps' to give a certain amount of continuity and as I said before there is no cap on the amount of hrs per person.
It has been quite a while since i have been described as a yoof - Thanks.
Join Date: May 1999
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The 10 hours per year are available for all UAS students of all branches. As far as I know, an NPPL medical is the equivalent of a heavy goods driver medical. However, UAS students need a medical category to participate in AT, so medicals will still be required. Such things as a need to wear glasses will not debar people from flying on a UAS. I think I'm right in saying that all UAS students will undergo a medical examination and will recieve one of three grades: "fit" which will allow them to proceed if they wish into the RAF as aircrew; "fit UAS flying only" (self explanatory); or unfit (will preclude flying, but not sure if it will preclude joining the UAS, but I'm sure someone will tell me).
The NPPL Medical Declaration basically requires that there should be nothing in the applicant's medical history which would preclude him/her for meeting the standards required for a professional driving licence. If those cannot be met, but the applicant can meet private driving requirements, a more restricted NPPL Medical Declaration may be made.
The important point is that the Medical Declaration must be made to the applicant's own GP, who has full access to the appliant's medical history, rather than to a CAA AME.
Service scholarship students on the Barrie Smart or Sir Philip Sassoon schemes are examined by Service doctors who hold CAA AME authorisation and are assessed to normal JAA Class 2 medical standards.
The important point is that the Medical Declaration must be made to the applicant's own GP, who has full access to the appliant's medical history, rather than to a CAA AME.
Service scholarship students on the Barrie Smart or Sir Philip Sassoon schemes are examined by Service doctors who hold CAA AME authorisation and are assessed to normal JAA Class 2 medical standards.
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Have been reading through all of this on the UAS changes. Few things that still puzzle me -
- Some people seem to be missing the fact that all the QFIs will be gone from most UAS's - will all the AEF pilots have the time/inclination to go back to CFS and get a QFI cat back again? If they don't want the hassle/commitment, doesn't all this look rather shaky. How many of the AEF pilots have never been QFIs and will they have to do the full Tutor QFI course?
- If all the QFIs have gone, who will be staffing all these wonderful new activities - are we posting in ground branch officers to replace the QFIs? I can't imagine (and wouldn't blame them anyway) the AEF pilots will take any part in town nights etc...
- I guess the limited amount of flying means that UAS studes will get flying kit on a day loan basis like the AEF cadets - many might scoff but I think the issue of flying kit to studes is an important part of the UAS system. I'm just imagining all these UAS students loving to wear blues/CS95 all the time...
Might be worth staying with/getting into a VGS (Volunteer Gliding Squadron now!) while you're at uni instead now - I know you won't get the AEF pilots experience and a fast, aerobatic ac - but you do get stacks of flying hours, captaincy time, chance to instruct etc...
- Some people seem to be missing the fact that all the QFIs will be gone from most UAS's - will all the AEF pilots have the time/inclination to go back to CFS and get a QFI cat back again? If they don't want the hassle/commitment, doesn't all this look rather shaky. How many of the AEF pilots have never been QFIs and will they have to do the full Tutor QFI course?
- If all the QFIs have gone, who will be staffing all these wonderful new activities - are we posting in ground branch officers to replace the QFIs? I can't imagine (and wouldn't blame them anyway) the AEF pilots will take any part in town nights etc...
- I guess the limited amount of flying means that UAS studes will get flying kit on a day loan basis like the AEF cadets - many might scoff but I think the issue of flying kit to studes is an important part of the UAS system. I'm just imagining all these UAS students loving to wear blues/CS95 all the time...
Might be worth staying with/getting into a VGS (Volunteer Gliding Squadron now!) while you're at uni instead now - I know you won't get the AEF pilots experience and a fast, aerobatic ac - but you do get stacks of flying hours, captaincy time, chance to instruct etc...
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Blagger - couldn't agree more about the AEF.
They are generally well-minded guys with the love for flying. But let's remember one thing - they don't get paid! (with the exeption of OC/DOC). Is your bog-standard line AEF pilot going to want to go through all of the hassle of getting CFS qualified, then with every sortie, going through the Brief-Teach-Debrief-Report cycle with periodic standardisation and assesment? All these guys want to do is pack in as many hrs as possible. I can't see AEF pilots wanting to live at Cranditz to qualify - Are CFS standards going to detach to AEF stns to qualify these guys?
What about the hrs issue? How many AEF guys are still professional CivAir pilots? Can you imagine the Chief Pilot of CosyAir telling his boss that he's unable to fly as he's used up all of his hrs instructing UAS studes? (...enter Beags with the regs...)
The 'plan' (if i may be so rude as to call it that) appears to be based around the couple of AEFs in Middle-England where pilot recruitmant isn't a problem, and most staff are ex-senior officers/QFIs....that is not the case everywhere else.
We're in for a very interesting cross-over period, methinks.
Uncle G
They are generally well-minded guys with the love for flying. But let's remember one thing - they don't get paid! (with the exeption of OC/DOC). Is your bog-standard line AEF pilot going to want to go through all of the hassle of getting CFS qualified, then with every sortie, going through the Brief-Teach-Debrief-Report cycle with periodic standardisation and assesment? All these guys want to do is pack in as many hrs as possible. I can't see AEF pilots wanting to live at Cranditz to qualify - Are CFS standards going to detach to AEF stns to qualify these guys?
What about the hrs issue? How many AEF guys are still professional CivAir pilots? Can you imagine the Chief Pilot of CosyAir telling his boss that he's unable to fly as he's used up all of his hrs instructing UAS studes? (...enter Beags with the regs...)
The 'plan' (if i may be so rude as to call it that) appears to be based around the couple of AEFs in Middle-England where pilot recruitmant isn't a problem, and most staff are ex-senior officers/QFIs....that is not the case everywhere else.
We're in for a very interesting cross-over period, methinks.
Uncle G
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 24th Sep 2005 at 22:14.
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The “new” EFT courses will be undertaken initially at 3 EFT bases; Cranwell, Church Fenton and Wyton. Each of these bases will have 9/10 QFIs and will run overlapping courses of about 13/14 students on each course.
It was called JEFTS.
They must have been up all f***ing night thinking up that one
.
Last edited by DB6; 25th Sep 2005 at 18:56.
Its just all sad sad sad. I was lucky to make the most of the Air Training Corps, then the Volunteer Gliding Schools then the University Air Squadrons. I also benefitted from a Flying and RAF scholarship and thus had 200hrs of flying time in RAF aircraft by age of 21 and had flown in several types of Rotary, Fast Jet and Transport aircraft.
What a rich, exciting, moulding, fun, informative and superb way of inducting Officers of some calibre (even if my own was .22 when .303 was required).
I've nothing more to say than I lament how this has all been brought so low in just 15 years.
Sad,
WWW
What a rich, exciting, moulding, fun, informative and superb way of inducting Officers of some calibre (even if my own was .22 when .303 was required).
I've nothing more to say than I lament how this has all been brought so low in just 15 years.
Sad,
WWW
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Al-Berr,
QFI numbers should be something like
3x10/11 = 30/33 (3 EFTSs)
14x1 = 14 (1 QFI per UAS)
Gives 44/47
AEF Bosses and AEF QFIs and CFS types (~15) on top of that on top of that maybe?
At the moment there are 90+ QFIs in the system. So how does that leave the front line? Especially when OCUs are moving away from in-house FIs and more towards CFS QFIs.
Uncle G
QFI numbers should be something like
3x10/11 = 30/33 (3 EFTSs)
14x1 = 14 (1 QFI per UAS)
Gives 44/47
AEF Bosses and AEF QFIs and CFS types (~15) on top of that on top of that maybe?
At the moment there are 90+ QFIs in the system. So how does that leave the front line? Especially when OCUs are moving away from in-house FIs and more towards CFS QFIs.
Uncle G
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EFT Syllabus
For comparison, current EFT syllabus:
1) Famil 0:30
2) E of C 1 0:45
3) E of C 2 0:45
4) S and L 1 0:45
5) S and L 2 0:45
6) Climb, Desc & Med Tuns 1:15
7)Climb desc 2 1:00
8) Stalling 1 1:00
9) Stalling 2 1:00
10) Circuits 1 1:00
11) Circuits 2 1:00
12) Cicuits (1st Solo) 0:30/0:05
13) Circuits Consol ) 0:45/0:30
14) Circuits Consol 0:30/0:30
15) Circuits 0:30/0:30
16) Circuits 0:30/0:30
17) PFL 1 1:00
18) PFL 2 1:00
19) Sector Recce 1:00
20) Solo Sector Recce 0:50
21) Steep Turns 1:00
22) Spin 1 1:00
23) Spin 2 1:00
24) GH 1:00
25) Solo GH 1:00
26) GH 1:00
27) Pre SAC GH 1:00
28) Spin Aeros Check 1:00
29) Solo GH 1:00
30) MRT 1:00
31) Solo GH 1:00
32) GH 1:00
33) Solo GH 1:00
34) GH 1:00
35) Solo GH 1:00
36) IHT 1:00
37) IF 1 0:50
38) IF 2 0:50
39) IF 3 1:00
40) IF 4 1:00
41) IF 5 1:00
42) IFT 1:00
43) Nav 1 1:00
44) Nav 2 1:00
45) Nav 3 - Solo 1:00
46) Intro to LL 0:45
47) Nav 4 1:15
48) Nav 5 Land away 1:15
49) Nav 6 land away (RTB) 1:15
50) Nav 6 Solo 1:15
51) Nav 7 1:15
52) PNT 1:15
53) Form 1 1:00
54) Form 2 1:00
55) Form 3 1:00
56) Form 4 Solo 1:00
57) GH 1:00
58) Solo GH 1:15
59) GH (FHT Pre-ride) 1:15
60) FHT 1:15
Total 62(?) Hours, although when you account for IA I ended up with 72 dual and 12 solo.
Make your own comparisons.
1) Famil 0:30
2) E of C 1 0:45
3) E of C 2 0:45
4) S and L 1 0:45
5) S and L 2 0:45
6) Climb, Desc & Med Tuns 1:15
7)Climb desc 2 1:00
8) Stalling 1 1:00
9) Stalling 2 1:00
10) Circuits 1 1:00
11) Circuits 2 1:00
12) Cicuits (1st Solo) 0:30/0:05
13) Circuits Consol ) 0:45/0:30
14) Circuits Consol 0:30/0:30
15) Circuits 0:30/0:30
16) Circuits 0:30/0:30
17) PFL 1 1:00
18) PFL 2 1:00
19) Sector Recce 1:00
20) Solo Sector Recce 0:50
21) Steep Turns 1:00
22) Spin 1 1:00
23) Spin 2 1:00
24) GH 1:00
25) Solo GH 1:00
26) GH 1:00
27) Pre SAC GH 1:00
28) Spin Aeros Check 1:00
29) Solo GH 1:00
30) MRT 1:00
31) Solo GH 1:00
32) GH 1:00
33) Solo GH 1:00
34) GH 1:00
35) Solo GH 1:00
36) IHT 1:00
37) IF 1 0:50
38) IF 2 0:50
39) IF 3 1:00
40) IF 4 1:00
41) IF 5 1:00
42) IFT 1:00
43) Nav 1 1:00
44) Nav 2 1:00
45) Nav 3 - Solo 1:00
46) Intro to LL 0:45
47) Nav 4 1:15
48) Nav 5 Land away 1:15
49) Nav 6 land away (RTB) 1:15
50) Nav 6 Solo 1:15
51) Nav 7 1:15
52) PNT 1:15
53) Form 1 1:00
54) Form 2 1:00
55) Form 3 1:00
56) Form 4 Solo 1:00
57) GH 1:00
58) Solo GH 1:15
59) GH (FHT Pre-ride) 1:15
60) FHT 1:15
Total 62(?) Hours, although when you account for IA I ended up with 72 dual and 12 solo.
Make your own comparisons.