Urgent Help!!
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Urgent Help!!
Feel so stupid at the moment its unbelievable!!! Anyway this is how the story goes...(by the way, I did create a similar post a while ago, but I didn't think it protrayed the full picture, so here it is)......
.........I was travelling down south a few weeks back with a group of friends who hired out a vehicle. As my friend was tired halfway through the journey, I decided to take control of the car. However, I got caught speeding at 115mph by a police officer with a Gatso gun. The officer immediately pulled us over and I gave my details and was told that I would have to attend court.
At the time, we hired out 2 cars, on one car we decided to have additional drivers added to the agreement (my car) and on the other only the named driver was allowed to drive (my friend's car). Now unfortunately due to the rush, our documents got mixed up and therefore, we had the agreement that did not possess additional drivers. Therefore this led to further problems……
In the panic, due to assuming that I was not insured, I jumped to the conclusion that as a result of being uninsured together with the speeding offence I would not be able to become a pilot. Therefore, I first falsified my details to the officer by giving the details of the named driver, however before I got out of the police car or should we say half-way through the discussion, I came to my senses and told the police officer that I was lying to him and confessed by giving my real details.
Would the above be classed as dishonesty or evasive of liability, as before I got out of the car, I confessed to my real details?? (Bear in mind I have never been in trouble with the law before, and have only now realised the seriousness of my actions after researching - never thought I'd ever get into trouble with the police! How wrong was I!!).
If it is not the case, can anyone shed any light as to what I can do in regards to the driving offence?
If however, this is regarded as dishonesty or evasive of liability, then I have 2 problems:
1. Speeding at 115mph, and
2. Dishonesty.
Can anyone help me on this matter please and any implications that it could cause?
I’ve heard that the RAF and Navy accept a zero tolerance policy for any convictions or offences held, would this include the above? I am asking this because I am intending to apply to the RAF and Navy as a fighter pilot this summer and would like to know if this scenario would jeopardise on my future ambition........and finally if there is any advice you could offer.
Thanks to all those that reply.
Fearless Soldier
.........I was travelling down south a few weeks back with a group of friends who hired out a vehicle. As my friend was tired halfway through the journey, I decided to take control of the car. However, I got caught speeding at 115mph by a police officer with a Gatso gun. The officer immediately pulled us over and I gave my details and was told that I would have to attend court.
At the time, we hired out 2 cars, on one car we decided to have additional drivers added to the agreement (my car) and on the other only the named driver was allowed to drive (my friend's car). Now unfortunately due to the rush, our documents got mixed up and therefore, we had the agreement that did not possess additional drivers. Therefore this led to further problems……
In the panic, due to assuming that I was not insured, I jumped to the conclusion that as a result of being uninsured together with the speeding offence I would not be able to become a pilot. Therefore, I first falsified my details to the officer by giving the details of the named driver, however before I got out of the police car or should we say half-way through the discussion, I came to my senses and told the police officer that I was lying to him and confessed by giving my real details.
Would the above be classed as dishonesty or evasive of liability, as before I got out of the car, I confessed to my real details?? (Bear in mind I have never been in trouble with the law before, and have only now realised the seriousness of my actions after researching - never thought I'd ever get into trouble with the police! How wrong was I!!).
If it is not the case, can anyone shed any light as to what I can do in regards to the driving offence?
If however, this is regarded as dishonesty or evasive of liability, then I have 2 problems:
1. Speeding at 115mph, and
2. Dishonesty.
Can anyone help me on this matter please and any implications that it could cause?
I’ve heard that the RAF and Navy accept a zero tolerance policy for any convictions or offences held, would this include the above? I am asking this because I am intending to apply to the RAF and Navy as a fighter pilot this summer and would like to know if this scenario would jeopardise on my future ambition........and finally if there is any advice you could offer.
Thanks to all those that reply.
Fearless Soldier
Last edited by Fearless_Soldier; 24th Jun 2005 at 23:04.
What did the Police say to you at the time, are they taking it any further, or are you "just" being done for speeding.
Bear in mind you could lose your license for going at those speeds anyway. Wether or not the Mil accept you after that is anyone's guess. Suggest you find out just what charges you are up for.
Bear in mind you could lose your license for going at those speeds anyway. Wether or not the Mil accept you after that is anyone's guess. Suggest you find out just what charges you are up for.
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Offence
That's the problem, its been approximately 3 weeks since my offence, and I haven't even been sent a summons through yet. Would you suggest me call the police branch up or wait until I get my summons?
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Perhaps what you mean is (in your first post): will I be able to get away with it? (in the eyes of OASC, I mean).
Driving at 115mph, In an car for which you were not insured, and then deciding that lying to a police officer was a good idea, probably suggests that you will have more than those 2 problems at Cranwell/Dartmouth ...such as lack of maturity, disregard for rules, fairly poor decision-making ability and (surprise surprise) a slight lack of integrity.
As to what you can do - I am sure those more qualified than me to answer wrt the response of selection officers will do so, but I would suggest that all you can do is to be UTTERLY truthful and explictly honest when asked about said incident at selection.
If you don't feel you can manage that, and convince the chaps there that this attitude will in no way manifest itself during flying training, I sadly hope you don't pass; otherwise you may end up in the same airspace as me or even the same aircraft as one of my mates - not an appealing prospect based on the evidence so far.
Sorry mate, there are plenty of good candidates out there with integrity. If you are successful, think carefully about your approach to rules (how they DO apply to you), honesty (you WON'T always get away with it) and your responsibility to your crew/aircraft/taxpayers, some of whom may not survive next time you can't be bothered to do things properly.
Good luck
Driving at 115mph, In an car for which you were not insured, and then deciding that lying to a police officer was a good idea, probably suggests that you will have more than those 2 problems at Cranwell/Dartmouth ...such as lack of maturity, disregard for rules, fairly poor decision-making ability and (surprise surprise) a slight lack of integrity.
As to what you can do - I am sure those more qualified than me to answer wrt the response of selection officers will do so, but I would suggest that all you can do is to be UTTERLY truthful and explictly honest when asked about said incident at selection.
If you don't feel you can manage that, and convince the chaps there that this attitude will in no way manifest itself during flying training, I sadly hope you don't pass; otherwise you may end up in the same airspace as me or even the same aircraft as one of my mates - not an appealing prospect based on the evidence so far.
Sorry mate, there are plenty of good candidates out there with integrity. If you are successful, think carefully about your approach to rules (how they DO apply to you), honesty (you WON'T always get away with it) and your responsibility to your crew/aircraft/taxpayers, some of whom may not survive next time you can't be bothered to do things properly.
Good luck
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posted by Gary Lager
A glittering career awaits 
...such as lack of maturity, disregard for rules, fairly poor decision-making ability and (surprise surprise) a slight lack of integrity.
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Why did you assume you'd never be in trouble with the Police driving at 115mph?
Frankly it's a bit late to start fretting about how this will affect your future - you needed to think and plan ahead. In full agreement with Gary Lager I'm afraid.
Frankly it's a bit late to start fretting about how this will affect your future - you needed to think and plan ahead. In full agreement with Gary Lager I'm afraid.
115 mph - presumably in a 70 mph limit? That is inexcusable and would, to me, indicate that you have no respect for the law. As for lying to the police......
If, as you assert, your documents were 'mixed up' and you knew that you did have insurance cover for the vehicle in which you were caught breaking the law, why did you not just tell the police and check the VINs on the rental doc.s?
2 hire cars, you say? Try proving that your speed was not the result of 'racing on the public highway' with your friend.
Even if your licence was previously clean, I'd say that you're looking at a substantial fine and being banned from driving.
Not an auspicious background for someone wishing to become a commissioned officer.
If, as you assert, your documents were 'mixed up' and you knew that you did have insurance cover for the vehicle in which you were caught breaking the law, why did you not just tell the police and check the VINs on the rental doc.s?
2 hire cars, you say? Try proving that your speed was not the result of 'racing on the public highway' with your friend.
Even if your licence was previously clean, I'd say that you're looking at a substantial fine and being banned from driving.
Not an auspicious background for someone wishing to become a commissioned officer.
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BEagle
Come on BEags firstly i am in know way trying to defend Fearless, he has got quite a few problems with this one (Fearless look up a thing called the rehabilitation of offenders act, i think it still applies to the military, but it takes time), however your statement, whilst true is very harsh. What is excusable? travelling at 75mph in a 70 mile an hour zone indicates no respect for the law, or 80 or 90. Have you ever travelled at these speeds. The battle of Britain was not won by Angels.
115 mph - presumably in a 70 mph limit? That is inexcusable and would, to me, indicate that you have no respect for the law
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I generally stay at 70mph and don't really travel much out of my home town because I'm constantly working 7 days a week. (gotta support the family as well as help fund my brother at uni which now he has finished).
As for the cars both cars were the new mondeo's and I didn't personally hire the car, the responsibility was given to my friends to book car.
The problem was that both main drivers have the exact same name and also their surname is more or less identical in that only one letter differentiates them from each other.
As for the cars both cars were the new mondeo's and I didn't personally hire the car, the responsibility was given to my friends to book car.
The problem was that both main drivers have the exact same name and also their surname is more or less identical in that only one letter differentiates them from each other.
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If you believed you were insured on the car but weren't due to a mix up with the info and docs, and the Police charge you for driving without insurance or for lying to them, explore to possibility of using mistake as a 'defence' to your predicament.
As I understand it a mistake of fact is allowed, where as ignorance of the law is not, so while you wont have an excuse for 115mph, you might have one for the insurance part of it. I'm sure someone better informed will be able to correct me however.
Have you considered a career as a cab driver perhaps?
As I understand it a mistake of fact is allowed, where as ignorance of the law is not, so while you wont have an excuse for 115mph, you might have one for the insurance part of it. I'm sure someone better informed will be able to correct me however.
Have you considered a career as a cab driver perhaps?
If the conditions were right, and the time of day was right.... I have no problem whatsoever with Fearless doing 115 mph on the motorway. Speed limits are mere guidelines put there by the nanny state.
And the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act should detail what offenses are 'spent' and do not have to be declared, provided a suitable time has passed.
And the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act should detail what offenses are 'spent' and do not have to be declared, provided a suitable time has passed.
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Tigs,
whilst I agree that we live in a Nanny state, this fools utter disregard of the law, without an even remotely valid excuse, is frankly unacceptable. Of course we have all driven in excess of 70, but well over a ton is stupid, foolish and a gross disregard of the law, and I hope he gets the book thrown at him.
And blatantly lying to a police officer just beggars belief. Lets face it, we very much need young up-and-coming officers, and I am all for a bit of 'spirit' but this is too much on this occasion, and would suggest that we do not want (or need) the likes of him in the RAF today, let alone as a pilot. (do you think he would have equal disregard for the likes of Vne or Vr??)
Sorry Soldier, you are a complete fool:
a. For speeding that much
b. For lying to a Police Officer
c. For getting caught!
Kind regards
TSM
whilst I agree that we live in a Nanny state, this fools utter disregard of the law, without an even remotely valid excuse, is frankly unacceptable. Of course we have all driven in excess of 70, but well over a ton is stupid, foolish and a gross disregard of the law, and I hope he gets the book thrown at him.
And blatantly lying to a police officer just beggars belief. Lets face it, we very much need young up-and-coming officers, and I am all for a bit of 'spirit' but this is too much on this occasion, and would suggest that we do not want (or need) the likes of him in the RAF today, let alone as a pilot. (do you think he would have equal disregard for the likes of Vne or Vr??)
Sorry Soldier, you are a complete fool:
a. For speeding that much
b. For lying to a Police Officer
c. For getting caught!
Kind regards
TSM
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Hello FS
My understanding of this area is that you could be charged with Perverting the Course of Justice (legal speak for lying to the police).
However - have you been read your rights? Have you been arrested? Have you had to give a statement about lying? If the answer to those questions is no, then you cannot and will not be charged with anything other than the speeding offence.
That is not to say that you will not be questioned and charged at a later date but I would strongly suggest if it hasn't happened by now it never will.
Speak to a lawyer anyway - although I'm sure they will advise you to keep your head down on the issue unless the police raise it.
Oh and ignore the pious do gooders in this thread, who have all at some stage in their lives done something utterly reprehensible and regretted it the next day!
Just don't do it again.
VP.
My understanding of this area is that you could be charged with Perverting the Course of Justice (legal speak for lying to the police).
However - have you been read your rights? Have you been arrested? Have you had to give a statement about lying? If the answer to those questions is no, then you cannot and will not be charged with anything other than the speeding offence.
That is not to say that you will not be questioned and charged at a later date but I would strongly suggest if it hasn't happened by now it never will.
Speak to a lawyer anyway - although I'm sure they will advise you to keep your head down on the issue unless the police raise it.
Oh and ignore the pious do gooders in this thread, who have all at some stage in their lives done something utterly reprehensible and regretted it the next day!
Just don't do it again.
VP.
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FS,
Write a letter to the Chief Constable of the county in which the offence occurred. Provide a detailed chronolgy of how you got to the point at which you (stupidly!) decided to lie to a Police Officer. Talk about a "moment of madness" induced by "the panic of having to deal with a Police Officer for the first time", etc etc. Be very very apologetic. Hopefully as others have said, you may end up only having to account for the speeding offence. If the Police do pursue the lying element, a second letter to the Chief Constable referring to first letter you sent him/her, may offer you the possibility of this aspect not being taken to court.
If nothing else, and assuming you have not completely blown your chances of joining the military, it will be very good practice for when you have to write a similar letter to the Station Commander when you end up doing something stupid in the future. Most of us have done it!!
Write a letter to the Chief Constable of the county in which the offence occurred. Provide a detailed chronolgy of how you got to the point at which you (stupidly!) decided to lie to a Police Officer. Talk about a "moment of madness" induced by "the panic of having to deal with a Police Officer for the first time", etc etc. Be very very apologetic. Hopefully as others have said, you may end up only having to account for the speeding offence. If the Police do pursue the lying element, a second letter to the Chief Constable referring to first letter you sent him/her, may offer you the possibility of this aspect not being taken to court.
If nothing else, and assuming you have not completely blown your chances of joining the military, it will be very good practice for when you have to write a similar letter to the Station Commander when you end up doing something stupid in the future. Most of us have done it!!
WHOA! HOLD ON!
Hire the lawyer....find out exactly what charges are being filed/have been filed.
No sense making a bad situation worse.
I would suggest we all have at some time done something very silly....and not got caught.
Deal with the situation that exists now....writing letters....confessing to sins that are not a matter of record yet....that is not being very wise.
No sense compounding the misconduct by more stupid acts.
The young man is beginning to see the error of his ways and hopefully has learned a very good lesson from his experience he describes.
If speeding tickets alone kept us out of flying...I would have been an infantry man.....and as the man said before....Angels did not win the BofB....or any other war.
Knowing how to focus that kind of spirit is the key....maybe this event has sharpened this young lad's focus a bit.
I see no sense in ruining a life over something like this....after all he did fess up to the cop....for whatever reason.
Telling the truth is the key....there is however no requirement to tell the entire truth unless asked for it directly.....in these matters.
Hire the lawyer....find out exactly what charges are being filed/have been filed.
No sense making a bad situation worse.
I would suggest we all have at some time done something very silly....and not got caught.
Deal with the situation that exists now....writing letters....confessing to sins that are not a matter of record yet....that is not being very wise.
No sense compounding the misconduct by more stupid acts.
The young man is beginning to see the error of his ways and hopefully has learned a very good lesson from his experience he describes.
If speeding tickets alone kept us out of flying...I would have been an infantry man.....and as the man said before....Angels did not win the BofB....or any other war.
Knowing how to focus that kind of spirit is the key....maybe this event has sharpened this young lad's focus a bit.
I see no sense in ruining a life over something like this....after all he did fess up to the cop....for whatever reason.
Telling the truth is the key....there is however no requirement to tell the entire truth unless asked for it directly.....in these matters.