Carrier Landings with Live Stores
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Carrier Landings with Live Stores
This is probably best directed at naval aviators or other navy crew in the know. I read recently that it is not uncommon for fighter and strike aircraft returning to carriers for arrested landings to jettison some of their unused stores, such as live bombs, prior to landing. Is that true or a load of BS? I assume, if it is true, that this is for safety purposes or are factors such as weight a factor? I know that standard fit missiles and ECM pods etc etc get brought back home but what about those bigger heavy bombs that didn't used for whatever reason?
Anyone got any clues about that?
cheers
Vic.
Anyone got any clues about that?
cheers
Vic.
Hi there
I think it has more to do with the potential for a bomb or such to fall off and go rattling across the deck, not to mention the strain it puts on the landing gear. I remember a video of an F18 taking the wire and it's AIMs were flung off the rails and along the deck. A mate of mine, who used to work the deck of a Harrier carrier, told me of a SHAR that was obliged to land on with a "hung" bomb, after having salvoed the rest into the Adriatic.He said that they cleared the deck of every person and readied the fire parties, just in case...
regards
TDD
I think it has more to do with the potential for a bomb or such to fall off and go rattling across the deck, not to mention the strain it puts on the landing gear. I remember a video of an F18 taking the wire and it's AIMs were flung off the rails and along the deck. A mate of mine, who used to work the deck of a Harrier carrier, told me of a SHAR that was obliged to land on with a "hung" bomb, after having salvoed the rest into the Adriatic.He said that they cleared the deck of every person and readied the fire parties, just in case...
regards
TDD
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
It is a matter of maximum trap weight/speed and bring-back. The increased wing size of the F-18E/F, for example, allowing an increased bring-back over the earlier models.
The maximum bring-back, fuel and stores, of the A-6 is 6,000lbs, that of the F-18E is 9,000lb. Dumb bombs would generally be dumped, pods and more expensive munitions (AAMs, PGMs etc) retained.
The maximum bring-back, fuel and stores, of the A-6 is 6,000lbs, that of the F-18E is 9,000lb. Dumb bombs would generally be dumped, pods and more expensive munitions (AAMs, PGMs etc) retained.
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There's a big difference between unexpended ordnance and 'hung' ordnance. It is absolutely no big deal to bring unexpended ordnance back to the ship, either for an arrested landing, or in a Harrier.
'Hung' ordnance means you've pushed the pickle button and tried to drop (or jettison) the weapon and for some unknown reason it's still stuck on your aircraft. The point is - you don't know what's happened, or what crucial bit of wiggling it's going to take before the thing falls off. So you'll do your best to shake the thing off and try repeated attempts to drop/jettison it etc, ideally over a pre-planned patch of water (where there shouldn't be too many submarines). But if it's still 'hung' you bring it back very gingerly to the ship and cross your fingers. In theory, with modern fuses, even if it does drop off your wing onto the deck when you touch down, it shouldn't go bang. In theory....
As for the unexpended case, all tailhook aircraft have a 'max trap' weight, which is the highest gross weight they're allowed to hit the arresting wire with. I'm not sure what this is usually based on - undercarriage strength, tailhook strength, arresting system limits, deck strength - I'll ask around at school today to see if anyone knows. But obviously the point is, you need to get below that gross weight somehow - either by dumping/burning fuel, or dropping/jettisoning stores. You may need to keep a lot of fuel on board for various reasons. It depends on the rule book you're working to at the time. But you may need to shoot your approach with enough fuel to make it to the nearest land divert, or you may need enough to get in the tanker orbiting overhead if you have a bolter, or you may need to have xx minutes of holding fuel etc etc. People often talk about 'bring back' eg the Super Hornet has more 'bring back' than the legacy F-18s. All they mean is that it has a higher max trap, so can land with more stores/fuel aboard.
The same holds true for Harriers - you can only hover at a particular gross weight (a function of the air temperature and pressure and the efficiency of the particular engine/inlet model you're flying that day). So you have to adjust your fuel/stores weight accordingly.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
'Hung' ordnance means you've pushed the pickle button and tried to drop (or jettison) the weapon and for some unknown reason it's still stuck on your aircraft. The point is - you don't know what's happened, or what crucial bit of wiggling it's going to take before the thing falls off. So you'll do your best to shake the thing off and try repeated attempts to drop/jettison it etc, ideally over a pre-planned patch of water (where there shouldn't be too many submarines). But if it's still 'hung' you bring it back very gingerly to the ship and cross your fingers. In theory, with modern fuses, even if it does drop off your wing onto the deck when you touch down, it shouldn't go bang. In theory....
As for the unexpended case, all tailhook aircraft have a 'max trap' weight, which is the highest gross weight they're allowed to hit the arresting wire with. I'm not sure what this is usually based on - undercarriage strength, tailhook strength, arresting system limits, deck strength - I'll ask around at school today to see if anyone knows. But obviously the point is, you need to get below that gross weight somehow - either by dumping/burning fuel, or dropping/jettisoning stores. You may need to keep a lot of fuel on board for various reasons. It depends on the rule book you're working to at the time. But you may need to shoot your approach with enough fuel to make it to the nearest land divert, or you may need enough to get in the tanker orbiting overhead if you have a bolter, or you may need to have xx minutes of holding fuel etc etc. People often talk about 'bring back' eg the Super Hornet has more 'bring back' than the legacy F-18s. All they mean is that it has a higher max trap, so can land with more stores/fuel aboard.
The same holds true for Harriers - you can only hover at a particular gross weight (a function of the air temperature and pressure and the efficiency of the particular engine/inlet model you're flying that day). So you have to adjust your fuel/stores weight accordingly.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
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Bringing back, or going elsewhere
On a jet inbound with a hangup, it had already had a good fling around the sky to try remove it.
This was followed by a fly-by (sometimes more than once) to determine as much as possible the potential for a premature drop (or even if it really was there)
Where possible, and close to a friendly/crab base a brisk diversion with all the bells and whistles when you arrived.
Wire, Foam sometimes, everything rolling, etc.
Obviously when sausage side or deep ocean, it's not an option and other considerations such as mentioned above then come into play.
Imagegear.
This was followed by a fly-by (sometimes more than once) to determine as much as possible the potential for a premature drop (or even if it really was there)
Where possible, and close to a friendly/crab base a brisk diversion with all the bells and whistles when you arrived.
Wire, Foam sometimes, everything rolling, etc.
Obviously when sausage side or deep ocean, it's not an option and other considerations such as mentioned above then come into play.
Imagegear.
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Just for info - the critical variable for max trap weight depends on the aircraft. For the Hornet it's a landing gear limitation, for the Tomcat it's an arresting gear limitation and for a Prowler it's a tailhook/structural limit.
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Is this the pics you were on about Two dead dogs ?
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Thanks for all those replies. Makes sense now. I hadn't considered the asymentric braking forces of landing due to a bomb on one wing and not the other.
Thanks again.
Vic.
Thanks again.
Vic.
