Flying Pay
Join Date: Jan 2004
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On a slightly different subject, has anyone ever heard of a case where an aviator fought and won the drop in flying pay once you have submitted your notice to leave the service. After all we keep doing the same job and they pay us less money... logic?? 
Join Date: May 2000
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Mattdog - Great news for all 170 of us involved in this and thank you for raising the profile of the issue.
PMA - Thank you for placing such massive and unreasonable pressures on 170 aviators in current flying practise. I wonder have you ever even seen the "Distractions" video?
Dry Geezer - You are an embarrassment to your profession, get rid of your post.
PMA - Thank you for placing such massive and unreasonable pressures on 170 aviators in current flying practise. I wonder have you ever even seen the "Distractions" video?
Dry Geezer - You are an embarrassment to your profession, get rid of your post.
Join Date: Jan 2003
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sargod
Friend of mine PVR'd and left last year. Never took a drop in FP, think he said he'd found a loophole. I still have his number tucked away so if you'd like me to pursue it for you i'll give him a ring. If your handle is anything to go by you will probably know him anyway. Left to set up a sheep farm in Wales !!
Dry Geezer
I echo the remarks of those before me although I probably have less patience and tolerance than them for abhorrent little t***s like you. Your comments were totally un-called for. Do yourself a favour..........GET A LIFE............ AND APOLOGISE. :
Friend of mine PVR'd and left last year. Never took a drop in FP, think he said he'd found a loophole. I still have his number tucked away so if you'd like me to pursue it for you i'll give him a ring. If your handle is anything to go by you will probably know him anyway. Left to set up a sheep farm in Wales !!
Dry Geezer
I echo the remarks of those before me although I probably have less patience and tolerance than them for abhorrent little t***s like you. Your comments were totally un-called for. Do yourself a favour..........GET A LIFE............ AND APOLOGISE. :
Join Date: Feb 2005
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mattdog,
I was in a similar situation a few years back, when I was given a resttlement allowance I shouldnt have had on transfer between services. Despite questioning whether I was entitled to the payment, I was assured by the pay office that it was 100% legit. I then spent said money, and 3 years later, out of the blue I had the treasury solicitor demanding that I list my valuables and threatening to send the bailiffs round (just what I needed 10 days before going to NI on a 3 month tour).
I fought this case over about 12 monrths on the basis of "estoppel". From what I remember, the essential arguments are: If you have accepted the money in good faith; if you have taken all reasonable measures to ensure that you were entitled to it; and you have in the meantime spent the money on items you would not otherwise have bought; the mob is "estopped" from taking the money back.
The problem you will encounter is: I managed during my legal battle to get hold of a directive which was not designed for public consumption, which instructs public bodies and pay offices in cases like this to get the money back first (as possession is a large part of the law), and dont worry too much about whether they are entitled to or not. They will do what they can to intimidate and threaten you to give it back.
If you think you have a watertight moral & legal case, stick with it. My complaint went up through the chain of command, with the bean counters throwing it back at me with spurious legal challenges and accusations of lying etc, which hacked me off massively, until it finally got to the navy board, who backed me up and told the b******s to wind their necks in. Just as well - next appeal would have been to Her Maj, who I doubt as though would have been to interested .
It will take a lot of detective work - I had to get hold of my telephone records from 3 years before at a different address to prove on the itemised bill that I had telephoned the pensions office with a query on the day I had received the payment. They will be ruthless in pursuing you for the money, but eventually your case will come before someone who will look at it objectively.
Good Luck!
I was in a similar situation a few years back, when I was given a resttlement allowance I shouldnt have had on transfer between services. Despite questioning whether I was entitled to the payment, I was assured by the pay office that it was 100% legit. I then spent said money, and 3 years later, out of the blue I had the treasury solicitor demanding that I list my valuables and threatening to send the bailiffs round (just what I needed 10 days before going to NI on a 3 month tour).
I fought this case over about 12 monrths on the basis of "estoppel". From what I remember, the essential arguments are: If you have accepted the money in good faith; if you have taken all reasonable measures to ensure that you were entitled to it; and you have in the meantime spent the money on items you would not otherwise have bought; the mob is "estopped" from taking the money back.
The problem you will encounter is: I managed during my legal battle to get hold of a directive which was not designed for public consumption, which instructs public bodies and pay offices in cases like this to get the money back first (as possession is a large part of the law), and dont worry too much about whether they are entitled to or not. They will do what they can to intimidate and threaten you to give it back.
If you think you have a watertight moral & legal case, stick with it. My complaint went up through the chain of command, with the bean counters throwing it back at me with spurious legal challenges and accusations of lying etc, which hacked me off massively, until it finally got to the navy board, who backed me up and told the b******s to wind their necks in. Just as well - next appeal would have been to Her Maj, who I doubt as though would have been to interested .
It will take a lot of detective work - I had to get hold of my telephone records from 3 years before at a different address to prove on the itemised bill that I had telephoned the pensions office with a query on the day I had received the payment. They will be ruthless in pursuing you for the money, but eventually your case will come before someone who will look at it objectively.
Good Luck!
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It was good to see Mattdog beating the pen pushers at city hall- especially as he's a colleague of mine. Good on ya fella!
Reading about the old RAF chestnut on flyingpay reduction and handing in our notice, if anyone has contacts, knows of any loop-holes, people who have done it and won, or can suggest a way forward PLEASE can you help me? My notice is in and I've just had the poke in the eye that says "you're still working for us BOY!"
My Mp is doing a grand job, but one of Reidy's undersecretaries has just regurgetated (sp?) AP3392 to him and me. And my point was exactly that- I've read it and don't beleive it to be lawful.
As one disgruntled aviator to many others, I hope you can help me.
Many Thanks in anticipation.
Reading about the old RAF chestnut on flyingpay reduction and handing in our notice, if anyone has contacts, knows of any loop-holes, people who have done it and won, or can suggest a way forward PLEASE can you help me? My notice is in and I've just had the poke in the eye that says "you're still working for us BOY!"
My Mp is doing a grand job, but one of Reidy's undersecretaries has just regurgetated (sp?) AP3392 to him and me. And my point was exactly that- I've read it and don't beleive it to be lawful.
As one disgruntled aviator to many others, I hope you can help me.
Many Thanks in anticipation.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
Join Date: May 2000
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The legal advice I received and paid handsomely for in 2001 (concerning reduction of pay under pay 2000) was this:
If your employer fundamentally changes your terms of conditions or employment, then you have a period of three months maximum to register your complaint. If you go outside the three months then you are deemed to have accepted the changes.
If you decide not to accept the said changes then you are ENTITLED to leave under the normal notice period that the law allows. For those of you in HM Armed Farces that equates to between 3 months and 6 months depending on your circumstances. MOD and PMA can say what they like to contradict it, and they will but it is the law.
I eventually left for different reasons, was quoted 12 months by PMA as a PVR waiting time and was out in less than 5 months!! If you have another job to go to then they have to prove their operational reasons for keeping you on.
I suggest any reputable solicitor specialising in employment law would be a good starting point, but they do not come cheap and the MOD/PMA believe they are above the law of the land..
If your employer fundamentally changes your terms of conditions or employment, then you have a period of three months maximum to register your complaint. If you go outside the three months then you are deemed to have accepted the changes.
If you decide not to accept the said changes then you are ENTITLED to leave under the normal notice period that the law allows. For those of you in HM Armed Farces that equates to between 3 months and 6 months depending on your circumstances. MOD and PMA can say what they like to contradict it, and they will but it is the law.
I eventually left for different reasons, was quoted 12 months by PMA as a PVR waiting time and was out in less than 5 months!! If you have another job to go to then they have to prove their operational reasons for keeping you on.
I suggest any reputable solicitor specialising in employment law would be a good starting point, but they do not come cheap and the MOD/PMA believe they are above the law of the land..
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Having just looked at AP3392, the reduction in FP for officers on PVR/Redundancy apparently only applies before 38/16; apparently, it does not apply if you are passed the 38/16 point. Also, in the redundancy DCI it appears that if you apply you will take a cut in FP and if you are 'selected' you do not.
It also appears that you do not take the cut in FP if you decide to leave at at a recognised break point (38 or 44). As I have applied for redundancy and have an option at 44 in the none to distant future, can anyone tell me how the rules have been applied in tranche 1 ? grateful for the good/bad news....
BT
It also appears that you do not take the cut in FP if you decide to leave at at a recognised break point (38 or 44). As I have applied for redundancy and have an option at 44 in the none to distant future, can anyone tell me how the rules have been applied in tranche 1 ? grateful for the good/bad news....
BT
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Mattdog
Just a quick note to say thanks to you and all the others that have brought this issue to light with PMA and PMA Legal. I have just received £3500 back-pay for under-issued flying pay and been put on to the enhanced pilot's rate of flying pay. And I have a letter from PMA naming me specifically for receipt of such, so I can go and spend it without fear of them wanting it all back next month!
Gentlemen, a small battle has been won, but the war still rages on unrelenting...
Oh, and for the benefit of Drygeezer (whom though banned must still read pprune), I think it'll go towards upgrading my sports car (not my saloon or motorbike), but only after I return to my massive house in Hampshire from my mahoosively expensive holiday to Africa. Chiseller.
Just a quick note to say thanks to you and all the others that have brought this issue to light with PMA and PMA Legal. I have just received £3500 back-pay for under-issued flying pay and been put on to the enhanced pilot's rate of flying pay. And I have a letter from PMA naming me specifically for receipt of such, so I can go and spend it without fear of them wanting it all back next month!
Gentlemen, a small battle has been won, but the war still rages on unrelenting...
Oh, and for the benefit of Drygeezer (whom though banned must still read pprune), I think it'll go towards upgrading my sports car (not my saloon or motorbike), but only after I return to my massive house in Hampshire from my mahoosively expensive holiday to Africa. Chiseller.
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Mattdog and other ex-NCA another battle with the to***rs at PMA won by the few. Is it any wonder they are all being moved to HYC!!!!! May get rid of some of the dead wood!
A nice payout of 7.5K
Thank you to all who gave advice on this matter
A nice payout of 7.5K
Thank you to all who gave advice on this matter
