MoD to issue "veterans badge" to service leavers.
Personally I think that the Golden Jellybean medal should only have been given to those who had served since the Silver Jubilee - medals for which were dished out arbitrarily but chiefly to senior officers, it seems.....
And I'd sooner be permitted to wear my Saudi and Kuwaiti GW1 medals than some silly spotters' badge.
And I'd sooner be permitted to wear my Saudi and Kuwaiti GW1 medals than some silly spotters' badge.
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If you want to advertise that you were once in the Mob, wear an RAF tie.
Those that count will recognise it, those that do not recognise it don't count.
Simple and discrete.
Those that count will recognise it, those that do not recognise it don't count.
Simple and discrete.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle is clearly refering to some new lapel pin and not the Veterans Badge that is worn proudly by the WWII veterans.
Gainsy suggestion has some merit except that one tie can get very stained and worn (length of service measured by egg stains?) and also a bit boring. The tie really only works when in vet uniform, white shirt, blazer, and grey slacks. Oh, and grey hair.
Gainsy suggestion has some merit except that one tie can get very stained and worn (length of service measured by egg stains?) and also a bit boring. The tie really only works when in vet uniform, white shirt, blazer, and grey slacks. Oh, and grey hair.
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Just to clarify the position for the Reservists on the long service medals.
It was the case that after 10 years' qualifying service you were awarded the Air Efficency Award (AE), with postnominals (if you like that sort of thing) and a bar for each subsequent 10 year period. There were equivalent RNR/RNVR/TA medals all with slightly different criteria (can't remember the Navy one, but the TA one was the Territorial Decoration, TD).
These were amalgamated a few years ago into the Volunteer Reserves Medal (VRM), common across the forces after 10 years' qualifying service, with bar for every five years subsequent qualifying service. However, VRM does not have postnominals.
Additionally, for outstanding service, Reservists may be nominated for the Queens Volunteer Reserve Medal (QVRM) which does have postnominals.
The unfairness crept in with the transitional arrangements, where Officers with 5 or more years served towards their AE could elect to collect an AE after 10, whereas all ORs - irrespective of length of service or seniority were not given the choice and got the VRM, minus postnominals. (Less than 5 years in, all got the VRM).
Poor decision IMHO, causing compeltely unnecessary aggro - should have been one decision for all.
Hope this clarifies things.
S41
It was the case that after 10 years' qualifying service you were awarded the Air Efficency Award (AE), with postnominals (if you like that sort of thing) and a bar for each subsequent 10 year period. There were equivalent RNR/RNVR/TA medals all with slightly different criteria (can't remember the Navy one, but the TA one was the Territorial Decoration, TD).
These were amalgamated a few years ago into the Volunteer Reserves Medal (VRM), common across the forces after 10 years' qualifying service, with bar for every five years subsequent qualifying service. However, VRM does not have postnominals.
Additionally, for outstanding service, Reservists may be nominated for the Queens Volunteer Reserve Medal (QVRM) which does have postnominals.
The unfairness crept in with the transitional arrangements, where Officers with 5 or more years served towards their AE could elect to collect an AE after 10, whereas all ORs - irrespective of length of service or seniority were not given the choice and got the VRM, minus postnominals. (Less than 5 years in, all got the VRM).
Poor decision IMHO, causing compeltely unnecessary aggro - should have been one decision for all.
Hope this clarifies things.
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A bit more on RAFVR(T) medals - for those who assist with Space Cadets:
After 12 yrs satisfactory service, you get the Cadet Forces Medal (CFM) and then for each 8 yrs subsequent to that, you used to get a bar. Around 4 yrs ago, the qualifying service for the bar was reduced to 6 yrs. I now have the CFM and bar (together with the QGJM) - I just refer to them as attendance medals!
They do reflect a certain amount of brave conduct over the years with SWMBO, however!!
After 12 yrs satisfactory service, you get the Cadet Forces Medal (CFM) and then for each 8 yrs subsequent to that, you used to get a bar. Around 4 yrs ago, the qualifying service for the bar was reduced to 6 yrs. I now have the CFM and bar (together with the QGJM) - I just refer to them as attendance medals!
They do reflect a certain amount of brave conduct over the years with SWMBO, however!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And of course I misread BEagles post about the 25 yr qual for the jelly bean.
Saw the tailor today with a medal cabinet so that you could select your CDM etc for your mess kit.
What did you have to do to get the Sierra Leone medal?
Why didn't I get a Tarshine Beach medal for braving the Aden sun for a week? The risks we took try to get a pair of flip flops for less than 2/6. 2/3 was an absolute bargain.
Then of course I should have qualified for the Polar Medal (Newfie clasp and Darwin star) for walking the length of Goose Bay airfield, at night, in a lounge suit, with snow on the ground.
Almost forgot I also qualified for the Malta medal (Gut).
Saw the tailor today with a medal cabinet so that you could select your CDM etc for your mess kit.
What did you have to do to get the Sierra Leone medal?
Why didn't I get a Tarshine Beach medal for braving the Aden sun for a week? The risks we took try to get a pair of flip flops for less than 2/6. 2/3 was an absolute bargain.
Then of course I should have qualified for the Polar Medal (Newfie clasp and Darwin star) for walking the length of Goose Bay airfield, at night, in a lounge suit, with snow on the ground.
Almost forgot I also qualified for the Malta medal (Gut).
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What did you have to do to get the Sierra Leone medal?
Oh yeah, and avoid the poisonous snake that crawled out of my colleagues bergan at Lyneham.
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Safety_Helmut.
Lets get a few things sorted mate.
1. I am not in here for a fight.
2. My maths was crass, maybe down to having a few Keo's so thanks for pointing that out.
3. If you read earlier threads you may realise that I am not a shiney. Also realise that you are not too.
4. I have campaign medals, just thinking of the people who get nothing.
5. I do not give false sympathies.(re QGJM) My Missus who is in a blue suit missed out by a few days despite getting a tour in Kosovo the Falklands and Bosnia.Incidentally, FI is still on a war footing so why no recognition for that?
6. Can you see that I am only trying to raise debate as to recognition of service where it has gone unrecognised?
7. Can we call a truce, after all, we are on the same side?????
Lets get a few things sorted mate.
1. I am not in here for a fight.
2. My maths was crass, maybe down to having a few Keo's so thanks for pointing that out.
3. If you read earlier threads you may realise that I am not a shiney. Also realise that you are not too.
4. I have campaign medals, just thinking of the people who get nothing.
5. I do not give false sympathies.(re QGJM) My Missus who is in a blue suit missed out by a few days despite getting a tour in Kosovo the Falklands and Bosnia.Incidentally, FI is still on a war footing so why no recognition for that?
6. Can you see that I am only trying to raise debate as to recognition of service where it has gone unrecognised?
7. Can we call a truce, after all, we are on the same side?????
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FI is still on a war footing so why no recognition for that?
What will it say on the back of a FI (non-conflict) medal? "For services to Penguin watching, binge drinking and swapping waste AVTUR for more beer with the Benny's".
I volunteered for another tour in Iraq rather than go to that complete waste of 4 months at the other end of the world.
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THS
bloody well said, war footing my arse !
ex leckie
looking for a fight, not me
QJM. your 'missus' didn't get it, so what, what did she miss out on, a totally meaningless lump of cupro-nickel.
Raise deabte ? if you have served in a capacity deserving recognition, it is probably already recognised, eg LS&GCM, campaign, meritorious etc, if you don't have those, there may not be a lot worth recognising.
Truce ? It's a debate, and in my opinion your side of the debate is not standing up well. All you wish to do is give some 'medal' or 'badge' to every single ex service person.
Sorry mate, but it's a bad idea.
SH
bloody well said, war footing my arse !
ex leckie
looking for a fight, not me
QJM. your 'missus' didn't get it, so what, what did she miss out on, a totally meaningless lump of cupro-nickel.
Raise deabte ? if you have served in a capacity deserving recognition, it is probably already recognised, eg LS&GCM, campaign, meritorious etc, if you don't have those, there may not be a lot worth recognising.
Truce ? It's a debate, and in my opinion your side of the debate is not standing up well. All you wish to do is give some 'medal' or 'badge' to every single ex service person.
Sorry mate, but it's a bad idea.
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A mate of mine (recently commissioned) was called in by the AE Ldr (Green Shielder) to be told his LSGCM had arrived on the Sqn.
Informed this was not an Officer medal, did he really want it?
Interesting to see at the 206 Sqn disbandment, the number of young SNCO aircrew with 4+ medals.
Nothing like a good skirmish in the Falklands or sand to decorate the chest, what!
I was 'awarded' both Jubilee medals with ribbons, one worn, one still boxed.
Anyone else out there?
Milt
With such an award, you have to be written up and cited in the "London Gazette"
Should be \'on line\' now, have a look
Well done mate!
Informed this was not an Officer medal, did he really want it?
Interesting to see at the 206 Sqn disbandment, the number of young SNCO aircrew with 4+ medals.
Nothing like a good skirmish in the Falklands or sand to decorate the chest, what!
I was 'awarded' both Jubilee medals with ribbons, one worn, one still boxed.
Anyone else out there?
Milt
With such an award, you have to be written up and cited in the "London Gazette"
Should be \'on line\' now, have a look
Well done mate!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Buoy 15 ever on 201?
Safety_Helmut, the debate sems a bit two-sided at the moment but exlechie has just stirred the grey matter.
My Dad let me play with his medals. They kicked around the toybox for a while, then they didn't. He always wore the ribbons however as it was part of his uniform. Not only servicemen got medals and not only servicemen wear medals. Medals are worn with uniform by many people, the Corps of Commisionaires for one.
Then my F in Law also let his children play with them. About 25 years ago he had to buy a new set of medals. A truism here but exlechie is not quite right that you will talk about it. From my observations seems that WW II did not talk about their experiences to their sons but are starting to tell their grandsons.
I think it is because they expect their sons to learn about it from its nearness but, years later, they realise that memories are fading and that grandsons should be told. I think this accounts for the number of 'experience' exhibits at museums.
My aunt treasured her brother's war time memorabilia tht he kept for the 35 years after the war, Anzac cap badge, buttons, flashes, medals and box, and two .303 rounds, with little brass parangs set in and buttons in place of the rims, as paper knives.
No I side with exlechie on this, keep your medals safe, you may wish to give them to your grandchildren. Children under 20 don't even know about GW 1 or the Cold War.
My studes only 20 years after the 6-day war had no idea about that dust up, a seminal moment in military operations.
Safety_Helmut, the debate sems a bit two-sided at the moment but exlechie has just stirred the grey matter.
My Dad let me play with his medals. They kicked around the toybox for a while, then they didn't. He always wore the ribbons however as it was part of his uniform. Not only servicemen got medals and not only servicemen wear medals. Medals are worn with uniform by many people, the Corps of Commisionaires for one.
Then my F in Law also let his children play with them. About 25 years ago he had to buy a new set of medals. A truism here but exlechie is not quite right that you will talk about it. From my observations seems that WW II did not talk about their experiences to their sons but are starting to tell their grandsons.
I think it is because they expect their sons to learn about it from its nearness but, years later, they realise that memories are fading and that grandsons should be told. I think this accounts for the number of 'experience' exhibits at museums.
My aunt treasured her brother's war time memorabilia tht he kept for the 35 years after the war, Anzac cap badge, buttons, flashes, medals and box, and two .303 rounds, with little brass parangs set in and buttons in place of the rims, as paper knives.
No I side with exlechie on this, keep your medals safe, you may wish to give them to your grandchildren. Children under 20 don't even know about GW 1 or the Cold War.
My studes only 20 years after the 6-day war had no idea about that dust up, a seminal moment in military operations.
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Medals and Badges
Sorry guys, as an ex mil chopper driver and all round war hero (well maybe not that) ribbons,,medals and badges amount to diddly squat out in the real world. Succesful in the corporate world now and wouldn't dream of mentioning heroic deeds in the dead of night on outskirts of XMG or Stanley or wherever, every now and then I get to interview an ex skygod and frankly find them dull and uninteresting with nothing to talk about other then irrelevant activities in Bosnia, Kuwait or wherever. Its what you can do in the future that counts, sorry, but it realy is.
Find it a bit sad that the only thing people have in their lives is what they did in the past and to walk around in a blue blazer with a squadron badge on it once a year with medals hanging off it.
Find it a bit sad that the only thing people have in their lives is what they did in the past and to walk around in a blue blazer with a squadron badge on it once a year with medals hanging off it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
CarPete, in a way you are right but unfortunately there are a lot like that out there. I was in Malta about 6 years ago. There was an old boy, in blazer, with medals, standing, misty-eyed, underneath the Submarine War Memorial overlooking Selima Creek.
He was obviously paying his respects to dead comrades. He looked sad that no one seemed to recognise either who he was or what he was doing.
I know another old boy who also spent many a day sitting at the bottom of Selima Creek when he was a lad. Now he has lots more memories etc so does not have to fall back on past glories. Never-the-less he still remembers them.
You may be lucky, you may never become old and forgotten but others are less lucky than you. I know one old salt who felt as you did until he happened to meet, 25 years later, the man who pulled him from the Channel, naked, freezing, covered in oil, and just about to die. Now he remembers both survivors and the dead.
He was obviously paying his respects to dead comrades. He looked sad that no one seemed to recognise either who he was or what he was doing.
I know another old boy who also spent many a day sitting at the bottom of Selima Creek when he was a lad. Now he has lots more memories etc so does not have to fall back on past glories. Never-the-less he still remembers them.
You may be lucky, you may never become old and forgotten but others are less lucky than you. I know one old salt who felt as you did until he happened to meet, 25 years later, the man who pulled him from the Channel, naked, freezing, covered in oil, and just about to die. Now he remembers both survivors and the dead.
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Pontius Navigator.
I think that this whole debate is raising some good points and for me, is giving me an insight into the minds of many people.
Safety_Helmut is entitled to what he says just as much as I am entitled to say what i say. As far as siding with people, i thank you for your support, however I also support all views on this subject be it from whoever.
I certainly feel that you have an open mind as to what I have said on this thread.
The problem with forums is that you cannot intonate with your words, so they can be misconstrued. Such is life
I think that this whole debate is raising some good points and for me, is giving me an insight into the minds of many people.
Safety_Helmut is entitled to what he says just as much as I am entitled to say what i say. As far as siding with people, i thank you for your support, however I also support all views on this subject be it from whoever.
I certainly feel that you have an open mind as to what I have said on this thread.
The problem with forums is that you cannot intonate with your words, so they can be misconstrued. Such is life
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Perception of Medals
Pontius - your observation on what fathers did with medals could not be truer, and caused me to think about this (and shed a small tear). My father's father was an ANZAC in WWI, died when dad was very young. My father appeared to have little interest in his father's career and when his mother died, he let his mad sister sell off the collection of campaign medals and Discharge certificate for a few NZ dollars in a pawn brokers.
I was a young teenager at the time and was disappointed that the memorabilia was lost to the family. My father, who had been invalidated out of the Army due to an nasty accident in the Western Desert, never bothered to collect his service medals; indeed didn't talk about the war at all. The family always felt a bit cheated - there were two male role models in the family who had given so much (Grandfather died from the effect of injuries sustained in France; dad lost an eye and suffered from related injuries and died prematurely young, in part due to his war service), and we had nothing tangible to recall a formative part of their all-too-short lives.
In contrast, my son (6 1/2) is incredibly proud of my service and my modest collection of campaign medals, including the QGJM(!). Indeed, I had to gently stop him from wearing my minatures to school on National Book Day, when he dressed (by his own volition) as 'Braddock VC' from my 1969 Eagle Annual. I do not glamourise my unremarkable time in the Service (indeed, I am critical of many defence related issues), but I would never do anything that would deter his obvious pride. In due course, my collection of bits and bobs will go to him (along with a recently-issued set of my dad's uncollected campaign medals) and provide a reminder of the role of our family in the Services.
Sorry, a bit sentimental, but if I had received a Veterens medal, I doubt that I would have worn it, but in time my children would look at such a small momento with a pride that we feel uncomfortable displaying ourselves.
CC
I was a young teenager at the time and was disappointed that the memorabilia was lost to the family. My father, who had been invalidated out of the Army due to an nasty accident in the Western Desert, never bothered to collect his service medals; indeed didn't talk about the war at all. The family always felt a bit cheated - there were two male role models in the family who had given so much (Grandfather died from the effect of injuries sustained in France; dad lost an eye and suffered from related injuries and died prematurely young, in part due to his war service), and we had nothing tangible to recall a formative part of their all-too-short lives.
In contrast, my son (6 1/2) is incredibly proud of my service and my modest collection of campaign medals, including the QGJM(!). Indeed, I had to gently stop him from wearing my minatures to school on National Book Day, when he dressed (by his own volition) as 'Braddock VC' from my 1969 Eagle Annual. I do not glamourise my unremarkable time in the Service (indeed, I am critical of many defence related issues), but I would never do anything that would deter his obvious pride. In due course, my collection of bits and bobs will go to him (along with a recently-issued set of my dad's uncollected campaign medals) and provide a reminder of the role of our family in the Services.
Sorry, a bit sentimental, but if I had received a Veterens medal, I doubt that I would have worn it, but in time my children would look at such a small momento with a pride that we feel uncomfortable displaying ourselves.
CC
Last edited by Cambridge Crash; 7th May 2005 at 06:54.
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Safety_Helmut.
If you go back to the very first post on this thread, you will see that I am actually against the issue of a badge to service leavers.
Think about the Squip who died recently on the Herc (God rest his soul) and then think about the family he left behind.
Would a medal for General Service now seem fitting???( despite the fact he will receive the Telic medal posthumously)
Other than that, thanks for the debate,
Exleckie
If you go back to the very first post on this thread, you will see that I am actually against the issue of a badge to service leavers.
Think about the Squip who died recently on the Herc (God rest his soul) and then think about the family he left behind.
Would a medal for General Service now seem fitting???( despite the fact he will receive the Telic medal posthumously)
Other than that, thanks for the debate,
Exleckie
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Come on Pontious an old sweat like you should know that its SLIEMA and the "boats" were based at Manoel Island with a Depot Ship.The Sweepers were at Msida,and the Med Fleet parked in Grand Harbour.FAA in Birzibuggia and the Crabs at Luqa,Safi and Ta Kali.Malta was awarded the George Cross for the whole country.Now that is what awarding medals is all about.
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Quickie on this thread and MPA.
Last year, in the mess at MPA, meeting some defence civvy's on a visit. Army bloke stands up and asks, "when do I get my medal awarded" Civvy's look puzzled. Senior occifer escorting says "you don't get a medal". "Why not" says Army bod "I get them for all my other operational tours" "Ah" say's chief defence civvy "but this isn't an Operational tour" "So why are we here" comes the reply. Embarrased occifer, confused defence civvy's, guffaws from the audience, game, set and match!
Last year, in the mess at MPA, meeting some defence civvy's on a visit. Army bloke stands up and asks, "when do I get my medal awarded" Civvy's look puzzled. Senior occifer escorting says "you don't get a medal". "Why not" says Army bod "I get them for all my other operational tours" "Ah" say's chief defence civvy "but this isn't an Operational tour" "So why are we here" comes the reply. Embarrased occifer, confused defence civvy's, guffaws from the audience, game, set and match!