RAF Odiham
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Icarusthesecond,
Very well said, about the act of climbing into a room via a window, etc, but in my experience of dealing with such stupid behaviour, that comes under the guise of, ''high spirits'' if committed by some ranks, whereas other ranks would be charged with breaking and entering and locked up, and the key thrown away.
Hypocrisy still the order of the day
Very well said, about the act of climbing into a room via a window, etc, but in my experience of dealing with such stupid behaviour, that comes under the guise of, ''high spirits'' if committed by some ranks, whereas other ranks would be charged with breaking and entering and locked up, and the key thrown away.
Hypocrisy still the order of the day
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Taff, I do not see the relevance to this case of the 'hypocrisy' point you are trying to make.
Icarus, I think you are totally out of line. You have clearly decided the verdict already, and I suspect all your evidence is harvested from the media, and not from primary sources.
Perhaps you will find out a little more from those who know once the CM is completed, but until then I suggest that your 'conduct unbecoming' suggestion may be more applicable to her than him.
Icarus, I think you are totally out of line. You have clearly decided the verdict already, and I suspect all your evidence is harvested from the media, and not from primary sources.
Perhaps you will find out a little more from those who know once the CM is completed, but until then I suggest that your 'conduct unbecoming' suggestion may be more applicable to her than him.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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You have clearly decided the verdict already
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Allegations not admissions.
For public domain information:
Telegraph 21/4
Telegraph 22/4
Telegraph 23/4
Telegraph 26/4
For public domain information:
Telegraph 21/4
Telegraph 22/4
Telegraph 23/4
Telegraph 26/4
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
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Fg Off Max Stout:
Thank you for your post. I am certainly not judging it before it has concluded. I appreciate that the PC world of the Armed Forces has gone mad, but that only highlights my point.
However, even you can not deny that, he admits that he was not invited into the room, it's in one of the hyperlinks you kindly posted. Obviously the rest is alleged, the CM martial has not concluded. If they were proven facts there would be no need for a CM
The papers have to put that for libel reasons. Some of what the victim says, may be embellished, some may not. But the bottom line is - He was not invited into the room, and had he just gone home, Odiham and the Officer concerned would not be the centre of this media issue.
I merely highlight the obvious from an impartial point of view. Long may the support for the individual continue! If I knew him, I would probably do the same, I don’t and therefore I can look at it from an impartial spectator point of view and comment thus. That is why we have these threads isn’t it??
Thank you for your post. I am certainly not judging it before it has concluded. I appreciate that the PC world of the Armed Forces has gone mad, but that only highlights my point.
However, even you can not deny that, he admits that he was not invited into the room, it's in one of the hyperlinks you kindly posted. Obviously the rest is alleged, the CM martial has not concluded. If they were proven facts there would be no need for a CM
The papers have to put that for libel reasons. Some of what the victim says, may be embellished, some may not. But the bottom line is - He was not invited into the room, and had he just gone home, Odiham and the Officer concerned would not be the centre of this media issue. I merely highlight the obvious from an impartial point of view. Long may the support for the individual continue! If I knew him, I would probably do the same, I don’t and therefore I can look at it from an impartial spectator point of view and comment thus. That is why we have these threads isn’t it??
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the PC world of the Armed Forces has gone mad
Judging by todays Torygraph it would apear that the defence are making a good case...
Lets hope he walks away untarnished.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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It does happen that very ropey cases go all the way to CM just because no-one has the balls to stop it.
Especially in a case like this one where, were the RAF to be seen to do nothing, they could be open to a substantial vicarious liability claim.
The "march in the guilty bastard" / "it woudn't have got this far if he was innocent" brigade might do well to remember that.
I do agree that in these cases the alleged assaulter should be given the same anonymity as the alleged victim until anything is proved.
Especially in a case like this one where, were the RAF to be seen to do nothing, they could be open to a substantial vicarious liability claim.
The "march in the guilty bastard" / "it woudn't have got this far if he was innocent" brigade might do well to remember that.
I do agree that in these cases the alleged assaulter should be given the same anonymity as the alleged victim until anything is proved.
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The prosecuting authorities (CPS, RAFPA etc) work to a common standard in deciding whether there is sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution. There was clearly sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution in this case. Whether the defendant is guilty or not is a matter for the court to decide.
As has already been mentioned, even if the defendant is innocent of indecent assault, he arguably showed a lack of good judgment, in entering the alleged victim's room via the window and climbing into her bed, all, by his own admission, without invitation. He cannot therefore be totally surprised to find himself on the wrong end of a sexual assault allegation.
As has already been mentioned, even if the defendant is innocent of indecent assault, he arguably showed a lack of good judgment, in entering the alleged victim's room via the window and climbing into her bed, all, by his own admission, without invitation. He cannot therefore be totally surprised to find himself on the wrong end of a sexual assault allegation.
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Scud,
I don't believe that enry to the room via the window is anything but an allegation. I have heard of no proof that this was the method of entry, nor indeed is "by his own admission" how he entered the room.
I don't believe that enry to the room via the window is anything but an allegation. I have heard of no proof that this was the method of entry, nor indeed is "by his own admission" how he entered the room.
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Can the accuser be named and shamed?
No - 'victims' of sexual crimes are guaranteed anoynimity for life, regardless of the result of cases.
I think that is very sensible, but there is an overwhelming case for extending this to the accused until (and if) they are convicted.
Sympathies to all in this very unfortunate situation.
No - 'victims' of sexual crimes are guaranteed anoynimity for life, regardless of the result of cases.
I think that is very sensible, but there is an overwhelming case for extending this to the accused until (and if) they are convicted.
Sympathies to all in this very unfortunate situation.
