Speed Cameras
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As far as im concerned speed does kill.
A LOW SPEED kills.
I drive on a lot of country roads and I must have seen so many crashes, nearly all of them involving someone overtaking.
Why are they risking their lives you ask?
Cos the annoying F*ck In front is only doing 40!
This makes it impossible to overtake before the next corner without some serious timing luck. My journeys take twice as long as they should because im stuck behind these people. And yet they dont seem bothered by the 20 or so cars behind them trying to overtake.
Did they ever think of saving some lives and driving a bit faster?
Even pulling over every so often might be helpfull.
Sorry but I think everyone gets pissed off driving on country roads when these people are about.
A LOW SPEED kills.
I drive on a lot of country roads and I must have seen so many crashes, nearly all of them involving someone overtaking.
Why are they risking their lives you ask?
Cos the annoying F*ck In front is only doing 40!
This makes it impossible to overtake before the next corner without some serious timing luck. My journeys take twice as long as they should because im stuck behind these people. And yet they dont seem bothered by the 20 or so cars behind them trying to overtake.
Did they ever think of saving some lives and driving a bit faster?
Even pulling over every so often might be helpfull.
Sorry but I think everyone gets pissed off driving on country roads when these people are about.
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Where I live many drivers seem to travel at a more or less constant 45mph regardless of road conditions or speed restrictions. Frequently one waits for an overtaking opportunity only to be tailgated by said moron in the next 30 limit.
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US Herk
I generally agree with your overall argument; my own wording was a kneejerk. I was trying (probably too cleverly) to differentiate speed from speeding. For me 'speed' is quickness, as opposed to 'speeding' which I regard as driving too quickly for the road/weather conditions/driver ability - regardless of the speed limit. 'Tis in that context that I still maintain that speeding kills.
I generally agree with your overall argument; my own wording was a kneejerk. I was trying (probably too cleverly) to differentiate speed from speeding. For me 'speed' is quickness, as opposed to 'speeding' which I regard as driving too quickly for the road/weather conditions/driver ability - regardless of the speed limit. 'Tis in that context that I still maintain that speeding kills.
A programme on BBC South last night was about the claimed inaccuracies of the LT 20-20 laser speed cameras. Evidently, the laser gun and video camera have to be accurately synchronised and the laser has to be held on exactly the same part of target vehicle thoughout the measurement. This is extremely difficult with hand held devices.
In seven recent cases, where the victim has employed a laser specialist, the police have dropped five charges.
In seven recent cases, where the victim has employed a laser specialist, the police have dropped five charges.
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The answer is simple, less cameras and more cars on patrol. A fixed camera only slows traffic for about 100 yards, usually with a plethora of brake lights followed by rapid acceleration.
No, a partol car, a human being (I think!!) that can apply a bit of discretion, judge the road conditions and judge whether 35 is too fast, just moving with the flow of traffic or a brief excursion to overtake safely.
Besides, when the bank down the road was robbed, the gatso outside was unable to give chase and as the robbers didn't run faster than 30mph, the useless thing didn't even take a picture!
No, a partol car, a human being (I think!!) that can apply a bit of discretion, judge the road conditions and judge whether 35 is too fast, just moving with the flow of traffic or a brief excursion to overtake safely.
Besides, when the bank down the road was robbed, the gatso outside was unable to give chase and as the robbers didn't run faster than 30mph, the useless thing didn't even take a picture!
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"The answer is simple, less cameras and more cars on patrol. "
<Applause>. Traffic police numbers have declined by something like 70% since the introduction of the revenue cameras in 1994. Traffic police have the advantage of being adaptable, their location varies and they act as a major deterrant. Cameras fulfill none of these valuable functions, but unlike Trafficpol, they are a profit centre, not a cost.
QED.
We did this with Crossbow a while back when he came out with the Speed Kills nonsense and I'd reiterate what I said then:
Oh dear, the speed argument.
"Speed" does not kill - inappropriate or bad driving does. This may involve speeding as an element. The following table showing accident causes is taken from the DETRs own report into road safety.
Inattention: 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%
Looked but did not see: 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless: 18.4%
Failed to look: 16.3%
Lack of judgement of own path: 13.7%
Excessive speed: 12.5%
Furthermore, a large number of the excessive speed accidents are not caused by /illegal/ speeds. Avon & Somerset Police published some stats that showed just 30% of excessive speed accidents took place in excess of the speed limit, and 2% of excessive speed accidents involved a stolen vehicle. The 68% of remaining excessive speed accidents involved speeds inappropriate for the conditions.
"For every one mph reduction in speed accidents reduce by 5%."
This is utter hogwash, coming from a pair of TRL reports that used some very creative statistical methods and relying on some very big assumptions. A causal relationship was assumed, and no allowance was made for any knock on effects. In fact, if you look at the stats, you find that the safest roads in the UK are the fastest - the motorways. This is nothing more than god old fashioned "spin".
<Applause>. Traffic police numbers have declined by something like 70% since the introduction of the revenue cameras in 1994. Traffic police have the advantage of being adaptable, their location varies and they act as a major deterrant. Cameras fulfill none of these valuable functions, but unlike Trafficpol, they are a profit centre, not a cost.
QED.
We did this with Crossbow a while back when he came out with the Speed Kills nonsense and I'd reiterate what I said then:
Oh dear, the speed argument.
"Speed" does not kill - inappropriate or bad driving does. This may involve speeding as an element. The following table showing accident causes is taken from the DETRs own report into road safety.
Inattention: 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed: 22.6%
Looked but did not see: 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless: 18.4%
Failed to look: 16.3%
Lack of judgement of own path: 13.7%
Excessive speed: 12.5%
Furthermore, a large number of the excessive speed accidents are not caused by /illegal/ speeds. Avon & Somerset Police published some stats that showed just 30% of excessive speed accidents took place in excess of the speed limit, and 2% of excessive speed accidents involved a stolen vehicle. The 68% of remaining excessive speed accidents involved speeds inappropriate for the conditions.
"For every one mph reduction in speed accidents reduce by 5%."
This is utter hogwash, coming from a pair of TRL reports that used some very creative statistical methods and relying on some very big assumptions. A causal relationship was assumed, and no allowance was made for any knock on effects. In fact, if you look at the stats, you find that the safest roads in the UK are the fastest - the motorways. This is nothing more than god old fashioned "spin".
(a bear of little brain)
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Couple of years ago, A316 at Twickenham, 40mph limit, loads of cameras. It's early (5.45) morning and I'm wombling along on my way to work, no hurry, doing about 40.
Car comes up in a hurry, 60+ probably, in outside lane. Overtakes me then brakes hard to slow down for the speed camera. Goes past than then floors it back up to 60 or so again, overtaking the police car that is a couple of hundred yards in front of me.
Loads of blue lights and an 'in a hurry are we Sir?' interview starting as I go past.
Shows how easy it is to get into a habit. Also how much attention the driver was paying to the rest of the road conditions round him - deserved to be done for driving without due care and attention if nothing else.
Car comes up in a hurry, 60+ probably, in outside lane. Overtakes me then brakes hard to slow down for the speed camera. Goes past than then floors it back up to 60 or so again, overtaking the police car that is a couple of hundred yards in front of me.
Loads of blue lights and an 'in a hurry are we Sir?' interview starting as I go past.
Shows how easy it is to get into a habit. Also how much attention the driver was paying to the rest of the road conditions round him - deserved to be done for driving without due care and attention if nothing else.
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.... that recent Government legislation changing the Freedom of
Information Acts gives you access to speed camera offences registered
within the last twelve months and placed on a freely accessible website?
Did you know that every time your car goes even over a mile or so over
the speed limit, it is registered and placed on the database? They only
send a ticket if you are way over, OR if you receive over 20 near misses
You can now check how many you have against your car's registered
number.
Check this page: http://www.e-database.co.uk/
It will ask you for a password - but just click on the 'need a password'
link and you'll be given one in a
pop-up window. In the top right hand corner there is a "click-on" window
and it even shows the picture taken by the camera.
Regards
Retard
Information Acts gives you access to speed camera offences registered
within the last twelve months and placed on a freely accessible website?
Did you know that every time your car goes even over a mile or so over
the speed limit, it is registered and placed on the database? They only
send a ticket if you are way over, OR if you receive over 20 near misses
You can now check how many you have against your car's registered
number.
Check this page: http://www.e-database.co.uk/
It will ask you for a password - but just click on the 'need a password'
link and you'll be given one in a
pop-up window. In the top right hand corner there is a "click-on" window
and it even shows the picture taken by the camera.
Regards
Retard
Thread Starter
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Here fellas
I was only trying to help out a few guys with illegal points on their license. Just remember those that were caught were not technically speeding and all those that were obviously did not have accidents.
If sppeding causes that many accidents how come the 3 million people caught last year were not involved in RTA's?
I was only trying to help out a few guys with illegal points on their license. Just remember those that were caught were not technically speeding and all those that were obviously did not have accidents.
If sppeding causes that many accidents how come the 3 million people caught last year were not involved in RTA's?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BBC: U turn over speed camera blunder
Thousands of motorists caught at a speed camera site in Wiltshire are no longer able to challenge their fines.
Originally, people caught speeding at the A303 Folly Bottom roadworks between May 2003 and August 2004 were told they could have fines and points reviewed. Now, the Wiltshire Swindon Safety Camera Partnership says only people caught between October 2003 and 13 January 2004 can apply. The change is down to record keeping, the partnership said.
The original invitation to have convictions reviewed came from the partnership after a woman had her court case for speeding dismissed. Clair Allison was caught on camera exceeding the temporary limit at the roadworks, but claimed there were no warning signs.
A spokeswoman for the camera partnership told the BBC: "The timeframe [for reviewing cases] only relates to when contractors cannot provide documentary evidence to show the signs were there when we say they were."
The partnership will only be contacting 2,467 drivers caught speeding and fined when the temporary limit was in place between October 2003 and January 2004. It cannot say how many people were fined between May 2003 and August 2004.
"We have had letters and calls from people caught outside our timeframe. We are taking advice and will respond individually," the spokeswoman added.
But a Wiltshire Police statement, issued on behalf of the partnership in July 2004, said more than 5,300 motorists were caught and fined in the first six weeks of the enforcement alone. A police spokeswoman then said each case could cost up to £250 to review.
Paul Smith, from the Safe Speed Road Safety campaign, which is critical of speed cameras, claims the signs at the roadworks were faulty throughout the whole period. "The right way forward is for someone with authority to now step in," he said.
Ms Allison's case was dismissed by Salisbury Magistrates' Court on 17 February because of a lack of evidence from the Crown Prosecution Service.
Thousands of motorists caught at a speed camera site in Wiltshire are no longer able to challenge their fines.
Originally, people caught speeding at the A303 Folly Bottom roadworks between May 2003 and August 2004 were told they could have fines and points reviewed. Now, the Wiltshire Swindon Safety Camera Partnership says only people caught between October 2003 and 13 January 2004 can apply. The change is down to record keeping, the partnership said.
The original invitation to have convictions reviewed came from the partnership after a woman had her court case for speeding dismissed. Clair Allison was caught on camera exceeding the temporary limit at the roadworks, but claimed there were no warning signs.
A spokeswoman for the camera partnership told the BBC: "The timeframe [for reviewing cases] only relates to when contractors cannot provide documentary evidence to show the signs were there when we say they were."
The partnership will only be contacting 2,467 drivers caught speeding and fined when the temporary limit was in place between October 2003 and January 2004. It cannot say how many people were fined between May 2003 and August 2004.
"We have had letters and calls from people caught outside our timeframe. We are taking advice and will respond individually," the spokeswoman added.
But a Wiltshire Police statement, issued on behalf of the partnership in July 2004, said more than 5,300 motorists were caught and fined in the first six weeks of the enforcement alone. A police spokeswoman then said each case could cost up to £250 to review.
Paul Smith, from the Safe Speed Road Safety campaign, which is critical of speed cameras, claims the signs at the roadworks were faulty throughout the whole period. "The right way forward is for someone with authority to now step in," he said.
Ms Allison's case was dismissed by Salisbury Magistrates' Court on 17 February because of a lack of evidence from the Crown Prosecution Service.
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Just found this:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/stats/
Would seem that deaths per mile driven have increased since "Safety Cameras" were introduced!!
Funny that beacause the one time I transgressed a word in my 'shell like' from PC pld put the fear of death into me!
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/stats/
Would seem that deaths per mile driven have increased since "Safety Cameras" were introduced!!
Funny that beacause the one time I transgressed a word in my 'shell like' from PC pld put the fear of death into me!
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Cunning system I employ for defeating the speed cameras, (it also works for patrol cars); When I see a sign with a speed limit on it, I simply match the number with the one on my speedo, or less if the conditions dictate.
I can guarantee this works - I have never had a speeding ticket in 24 years of motoring, and motorcycling.
PS. If you wanted a way of discouraging passing idiots on your road trying to mow down your children, here's a device I'd like to see introduced. A GATSO camera linked to a remote controlled stinger, once you'd had a bill for 4 new tyres, you'd think twice next time!!
I can guarantee this works - I have never had a speeding ticket in 24 years of motoring, and motorcycling.
PS. If you wanted a way of discouraging passing idiots on your road trying to mow down your children, here's a device I'd like to see introduced. A GATSO camera linked to a remote controlled stinger, once you'd had a bill for 4 new tyres, you'd think twice next time!!
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Chaps,
I do not want to get too heavy with this, but as one of HM's Magistrates and having read this thread I feel I ought to just say a word or two! I would also add that I am an advanced driver trained to the police standard.
I agree that inappropriate speed kills, I have had to hear the evidence on more than one occasion and it is not normally very nice. The description of the injuries sustained can get very gory, it is often made worse by the fact that the victim was a child. Invariablly the driver concerned is devistaed by his actions and I know of at least two people who have never driven again following a serious accident that was their fault. I personally try to remain inside the speed lmit, but as I am only human sometimes the speed creeps up. However, I am not so anally retentive as to stand on my brakes because the speed limit has just changed from 60mph to 30mph.
The real problem is that very few people, and to some degree I include myself in this, can really read the road and select an appropriate speed. They are then travelling too fast for the conditions and an accident ensues. Remember the series of very serious crashes on the M4, all in fog and caused by speeding.
I have been shown some new technology that is based on GPS locators that will electronically limit speed to the local speed limit. The idea being that cars/lorries/buses fitted with the device will not be able to exceed the speed limit. Therefore no need for speed cameras or stealth taxes. It is still in prototype stage, but initial test are very promising.
I do not want to get too heavy with this, but as one of HM's Magistrates and having read this thread I feel I ought to just say a word or two! I would also add that I am an advanced driver trained to the police standard.
I agree that inappropriate speed kills, I have had to hear the evidence on more than one occasion and it is not normally very nice. The description of the injuries sustained can get very gory, it is often made worse by the fact that the victim was a child. Invariablly the driver concerned is devistaed by his actions and I know of at least two people who have never driven again following a serious accident that was their fault. I personally try to remain inside the speed lmit, but as I am only human sometimes the speed creeps up. However, I am not so anally retentive as to stand on my brakes because the speed limit has just changed from 60mph to 30mph.
The real problem is that very few people, and to some degree I include myself in this, can really read the road and select an appropriate speed. They are then travelling too fast for the conditions and an accident ensues. Remember the series of very serious crashes on the M4, all in fog and caused by speeding.
I have been shown some new technology that is based on GPS locators that will electronically limit speed to the local speed limit. The idea being that cars/lorries/buses fitted with the device will not be able to exceed the speed limit. Therefore no need for speed cameras or stealth taxes. It is still in prototype stage, but initial test are very promising.
Spry, one thing that infuriates me most is the 'nanny state' inappropriate speed limits which have sprung up in recent years, particularly here in Oxfordshire.
I have it on good authority that the local Bill are equally scathing of the huggy-fluffies' obsession with lower speed limits, and are often viewed quite wrongly as the villains of the piece. Whereas actually the people to blame are the rabble-rousing local greenies who seem to think that bicycles are the only true way...
Years ago, if you showed someone a photo of a road and said 'guess the speed limit', most people would get it right. But nowadays there is simply no rhyme or reason to the absurdly low limits sprinkled around Oxfordshire. It's always a breath of fresh air when I hit the Warwickshire border and escape to sanity on my drive to Birmingham airport.
There would be much greater respect for speed limits if they were set according to a national policy and not by the local 'mad vegetarians on bicycles' as Jeremy Clarkson so rightly terms them. I can just remember the first 40 mph limits with their odd roadsign and the first of the 'holiday weekend 50 mph limits' as well as the blanket 50 mph era. But now there are places near here (B4022 Witney to Hailey) where the limit is 30, 60, 40, 30, 60 in less than 1.5 mile.... And the only blind 90 deg bend is in the 60 mph section! Barking bloody mad!!
And Kite - keep your bloody kids off the road if you want them to live!
I have it on good authority that the local Bill are equally scathing of the huggy-fluffies' obsession with lower speed limits, and are often viewed quite wrongly as the villains of the piece. Whereas actually the people to blame are the rabble-rousing local greenies who seem to think that bicycles are the only true way...
Years ago, if you showed someone a photo of a road and said 'guess the speed limit', most people would get it right. But nowadays there is simply no rhyme or reason to the absurdly low limits sprinkled around Oxfordshire. It's always a breath of fresh air when I hit the Warwickshire border and escape to sanity on my drive to Birmingham airport.
There would be much greater respect for speed limits if they were set according to a national policy and not by the local 'mad vegetarians on bicycles' as Jeremy Clarkson so rightly terms them. I can just remember the first 40 mph limits with their odd roadsign and the first of the 'holiday weekend 50 mph limits' as well as the blanket 50 mph era. But now there are places near here (B4022 Witney to Hailey) where the limit is 30, 60, 40, 30, 60 in less than 1.5 mile.... And the only blind 90 deg bend is in the 60 mph section! Barking bloody mad!!
And Kite - keep your bloody kids off the road if you want them to live!
Kite, if you could keep your offspring off the roads then we wouldn't need to hear your fantastic willy wonka ideas for gatso/speed camera combos...
If you want to blindly follow draconian, stupidly-outdated restrictions on country roads... then be my guest. But don't complain when I overtake and leave you choking on my dust.
If you want to blindly follow draconian, stupidly-outdated restrictions on country roads... then be my guest. But don't complain when I overtake and leave you choking on my dust.
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Did they ever think of saving some lives and driving a bit faster?
True - there always seems to be the annoying driver that slugs along. However, there seem to be even more brain dead idiots that go way too fast and probably don't even realise it until the "unlikely" happens and they lose control, wrapping themselves around a tree - or worse.
Fat Albert
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A420 Swindon to Oxford. Lots of 50mph sections and speed cameras.
Every Monday morning around 5 - 5.30 AM there is at least one nutter who thinks that tailgating me will make me increase my speed. Or they wait until one of the many junctions and overtake on the cross hatches. What does this achieve. Generally they get to Oxford about three cars in front of me. What is the point.
Also when did obeyance of traffic lights become optional. The problem is becoming enormous in Swindon and I have no doubt that this is repeated in most cities. I`ll bet the government could make loads of money with traffic signal cameras.
Every Monday morning around 5 - 5.30 AM there is at least one nutter who thinks that tailgating me will make me increase my speed. Or they wait until one of the many junctions and overtake on the cross hatches. What does this achieve. Generally they get to Oxford about three cars in front of me. What is the point.
Also when did obeyance of traffic lights become optional. The problem is becoming enormous in Swindon and I have no doubt that this is repeated in most cities. I`ll bet the government could make loads of money with traffic signal cameras.