Lynx Down on SPTA
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hyd3failure;
And how do you work that out? 
SS
If the crew are ok then it wasn't a drive shaft failure.
SS
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
BFBS is reporting that "the tail rotor snapped off".
It is understood the helicopter sustained some damage to its tail rotor blade.
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Basher 577 - "Ah the "Wasteland widow maker" strikes again! Is that twice in a week?"
Why do you not wait for the facts before making such a stupid irresponsible remark!
Why do you not wait for the facts before making such a stupid irresponsible remark!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
MReyn24050;
As no-one was injured, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Basher577 s remark. The name "Wasteland widow maker" is a well known phrase for this aircraft.
No doubt we'll soon get the, "Otherwise Impeccable Safety Record", phrase mentioned.
Trust us, we know !!
MReyn24050 and the like. For your interest, these are the facts;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3642068.stm
1989: Kenya crash kills nine crew from the Royal Navy
1998: Three servicemen killed during air tests in Bosnia
1999: Leicestershire crash kills three crew
2001: Two crew escape after crashing into the Arabian Sea
2002: Two perish when Lynx comes down off coast of US
2004: Navy crash in Antarctica seriously injures three people
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
Not to mention NI, Germany and others?.
"Safety scare grounds Lynx helicopters"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/729554.stm
Not to mention ALL the other incidents and accident not reported \'outside\'.
Please don't come up with the old, 'til we know the full story'phrase. Look at the history where we do.
As no-one was injured, IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Basher577 s remark. The name "Wasteland widow maker" is a well known phrase for this aircraft.
No doubt we'll soon get the, "Otherwise Impeccable Safety Record", phrase mentioned.
Trust us, we know !!
MReyn24050 and the like. For your interest, these are the facts;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3642068.stm
1989: Kenya crash kills nine crew from the Royal Navy
1998: Three servicemen killed during air tests in Bosnia
1999: Leicestershire crash kills three crew
2001: Two crew escape after crashing into the Arabian Sea
2002: Two perish when Lynx comes down off coast of US
2004: Navy crash in Antarctica seriously injures three people
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
Not to mention NI, Germany and others?.
"Safety scare grounds Lynx helicopters"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/729554.stm
Not to mention ALL the other incidents and accident not reported \'outside\'.
Please don't come up with the old, 'til we know the full story'phrase. Look at the history where we do.
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 23rd Feb 2005 at 11:59.
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SS, seeing how you arent in the business anymore, the old adage of 'til we know the full story' does still stand. After all, we know certain persons copy and paste straight to the tabloids from this site and someones dumb or misplaced comment on their theories doesnt help the situation. Probably wasting my breath here as no doubt a full Board of Inquiry will be run on line with all the 'experts' adding their ten pennies worth.
I fully expect you to do an in-depth dissection of my post, SS giving your opinions. Thanks, Ive had enough of them for the time being.
So, til we know the full story etc, etc....
PS Glad they walked again.
I fully expect you to do an in-depth dissection of my post, SS giving your opinions. Thanks, Ive had enough of them for the time being.
So, til we know the full story etc, etc....
PS Glad they walked again.
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Hyd3Fail;
I bow to your obvious experience of tail rotor malfunctions you must be a test pilot or something 
Knowing some people that have walked away from drive shaft failures i think you will find it can be survivable.
P.S I have seen the downed Lynx from this morning and it looks like they hit the ground pretty hard.
If the crew are ok then it wasn't a drive shaft failure. Possible a control failure. I have not herad anything yet but will listen out. Hope the guys aer ok though
Knowing some people that have walked away from drive shaft failures i think you will find it can be survivable.P.S I have seen the downed Lynx from this morning and it looks like they hit the ground pretty hard.
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SilsoeSid,
I am afraid I think your post is toss.
Whilst it is acknowledged that the Lynx has its faults, posting a list of crashes of which many were attributed to pilot error or had pilot error as a major factor waters down your argument.
Lets wait and see.
I am afraid I think your post is toss.
Whilst it is acknowledged that the Lynx has its faults, posting a list of crashes of which many were attributed to pilot error or had pilot error as a major factor waters down your argument.
Lets wait and see.
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Siloe Sid - "Trust us, we know !!"
Really, so you know what were the causes of the Lynx Flying accidents you listed? Design problemsl? My acquaintance with the Lynx dates back to 1978 when the first 6 operational Lynx AH Mk 1 landed arrived in Detmold BAOR to join 654 Sqn AAC. The aircraft in its various Marks has been in service for almost 30 years. Many of the accidents that have occurrred and caused fatalities have had nothing to do with design or mechanical failure.
My statement still stands wait for the BOI before making such damning statements.
Really, so you know what were the causes of the Lynx Flying accidents you listed? Design problemsl? My acquaintance with the Lynx dates back to 1978 when the first 6 operational Lynx AH Mk 1 landed arrived in Detmold BAOR to join 654 Sqn AAC. The aircraft in its various Marks has been in service for almost 30 years. Many of the accidents that have occurrred and caused fatalities have had nothing to do with design or mechanical failure.
My statement still stands wait for the BOI before making such damning statements.
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MReyn24050,
Your acquaintance with the Lynx is greater than mine by 3 years, however have you flown them? You do not say.
Kenya, door fell off. Hit tail rotor
Leicester, catastrophic engine failure.
Bosnia, tail rotor
2000? Germany. Tail rotor drive failure in hover. Two walked away! (WG-13 was around there I believe).
1980s, tail rotor!
Design problems. I think so. Any surprise no-one wanted to fly her.
WG-13,
Of course you are now stopping flying the Lynx of your own choice! After all those hard times you used to give the APS pilots. You also used to proudly show off your "Wastelands Crash Test Dummy" badge!
Didn't someone here, on the 'anti SS bandwagon', say in the past in reference to the Lynx;
"a 30 year old flawed design "?
"All throb monster drivers know the short falls (long falls if your MSVRH is tonk!) of the cab, we can deal with them."
"how many incident reports have you filled?!!!!!"
Now, that's confidence inspiring.
In the Lynx Flight crewroom, everyone was eager to go flying !
Your acquaintance with the Lynx is greater than mine by 3 years, however have you flown them? You do not say.
Really, so you know what were the causes of the Lynx Flying accidents you listed? Design problemsl?
Leicester, catastrophic engine failure.
Bosnia, tail rotor
2000? Germany. Tail rotor drive failure in hover. Two walked away! (WG-13 was around there I believe).
1980s, tail rotor!
Design problems. I think so. Any surprise no-one wanted to fly her.
WG-13,
Of course you are now stopping flying the Lynx of your own choice! After all those hard times you used to give the APS pilots. You also used to proudly show off your "Wastelands Crash Test Dummy" badge!
Didn't someone here, on the 'anti SS bandwagon', say in the past in reference to the Lynx;
"a 30 year old flawed design "?
"All throb monster drivers know the short falls (long falls if your MSVRH is tonk!) of the cab, we can deal with them."
"how many incident reports have you filled?!!!!!"
Now, that's confidence inspiring.
In the Lynx Flight crewroom, everyone was eager to go flying !
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 23rd Feb 2005 at 13:24.
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Don't forget the tie-bar failure Sept '94 in Germany, two fatalities - one of them a good mate of mine.
I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the Lynx, but sadly I've known many good blokes who are no longer with us after meeting their demise on the type. Only one of the incidents was a result of pilot error (the Ploce prang in '97).
That said, however, I don't doubt that the nature of military flying plays a part and I guess that's something everyone considers before signing the dotted line.
I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the Lynx, but sadly I've known many good blokes who are no longer with us after meeting their demise on the type. Only one of the incidents was a result of pilot error (the Ploce prang in '97).
That said, however, I don't doubt that the nature of military flying plays a part and I guess that's something everyone considers before signing the dotted line.
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Back to MReyn24050s remark to Basher577, "Why do you not wait for the facts before making such a stupid irresponsible remark!", that started this war off ".
It was known at the time that there was no fatalities.
What are we going to have to "wait and see"? I should think that grapevines on this network should be considered to be 'fairly' reliable.
As there were no serious injuries, I think we should be allowed to speculate. After all, the BOI in the Germany 2000ish tr drive failure, initially seemed to be more concerned about the weight of a nav bag than the fact that the shaft had penetrated the tail boom skin.
We are all to aware of the effects that speculation can have in serious incidents, with NOK and friends waiting of news, and we respect this, but this is not one of these cases.
Reliable sources and witnesses at the scene have had a say, so what is wrong with a little informed speculation?
The history of the Lynx is not squeaky clean as we all know, so surely we can have a discussion on the beasts failures, which are highlighted once more with this incident, which we hope will be rectified with the Future Lynx.
She is a beast of a machine, in the nicest sense, and I always enjoyed flying her. but when she bites, you had better be ready for it. You knew that if nothing was going wrong, it was just about to.
On my last Ex.
It was known at the time that there was no fatalities.
What are we going to have to "wait and see"? I should think that grapevines on this network should be considered to be 'fairly' reliable.
As there were no serious injuries, I think we should be allowed to speculate. After all, the BOI in the Germany 2000ish tr drive failure, initially seemed to be more concerned about the weight of a nav bag than the fact that the shaft had penetrated the tail boom skin.
We are all to aware of the effects that speculation can have in serious incidents, with NOK and friends waiting of news, and we respect this, but this is not one of these cases.
Reliable sources and witnesses at the scene have had a say, so what is wrong with a little informed speculation?
The history of the Lynx is not squeaky clean as we all know, so surely we can have a discussion on the beasts failures, which are highlighted once more with this incident, which we hope will be rectified with the Future Lynx.
She is a beast of a machine, in the nicest sense, and I always enjoyed flying her. but when she bites, you had better be ready for it. You knew that if nothing was going wrong, it was just about to.
On my last Ex.
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Many of those flying incidents you have mentioed refer to the AAC Mk 7 and Mk9 which are very different to the Navy Mk 3 and Mk8 particularly with regards to Engineering standards and practices.
I think it is a bit early to call the AAC lynx the widow maker due to 2 accidents in a week when one of them was clearly aircrew error
1989: Kenya crash kills nine crew from the Royal Navy
1998: Three servicemen killed during air tests in Bosnia
1999: Leicestershire crash kills three crew
2001: Two crew escape after crashing into the Arabian Sea
2002: Two perish when Lynx comes down off coast of US
2004: Navy crash in Antarctica seriously injures three people
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
Of all those 10 Accidents I can only see three which were a fault with the aircraft...and one of those was the engines (RR). The rest are aircrew error. This aircraft has been in front line service for 30 years. One flying accident every three years does not make a widow maker. The expected accident rate is one every 18 months and so using that, this aircraft is extremely safe.
I think it is a bit early to call the AAC lynx the widow maker due to 2 accidents in a week when one of them was clearly aircrew error
1989: Kenya crash kills nine crew from the Royal Navy
1998: Three servicemen killed during air tests in Bosnia
1999: Leicestershire crash kills three crew
2001: Two crew escape after crashing into the Arabian Sea
2002: Two perish when Lynx comes down off coast of US
2004: Navy crash in Antarctica seriously injures three people
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
Of all those 10 Accidents I can only see three which were a fault with the aircraft...and one of those was the engines (RR). The rest are aircrew error. This aircraft has been in front line service for 30 years. One flying accident every three years does not make a widow maker. The expected accident rate is one every 18 months and so using that, this aircraft is extremely safe.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The Wasteland Widow maker is a nickname.
Much like the B-26 Marauder and F-104 Starfighter, both called 'Widowmaker', not neccesarily because of the deaths they caused due to mechanical or design faults, but because of their handling characteristics and when things went wrong they were difficult to handle. What we would in this modern age call 'Pilot Error', if no other decisive fault was found.
hyd3failure
Who's calling the shots now then! Any other gems you may have picked up from the BOI? 
Lets not speculate, until we have the full story.
2004: Navy crash in Antarctica seriously injures three people
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
So what would 5 accidents in that time period make it, still safe?
BTDTGTTShirt, (whatever on Earth that all stands for ), Quite right, however some people just want to carry it on though don't they? 
Much like the B-26 Marauder and F-104 Starfighter, both called 'Widowmaker', not neccesarily because of the deaths they caused due to mechanical or design faults, but because of their handling characteristics and when things went wrong they were difficult to handle. What we would in this modern age call 'Pilot Error', if no other decisive fault was found.
hyd3failure
I think it is a bit early to call the AAC lynx the widow maker due to 2 accidents in a week when one of them was clearly aircrew error
Lets not speculate, until we have the full story.
One flying accident every three years does not make a widow maker. The expected accident rate is one every 18 months and so using that, this aircraft is extremely safe.
2004 Crash in Czech Republic kills six soldiers
2004: Lynx, carrying four crew, crashes into the sea off the coast of Cornwall
2005 Bosnia no fatal
2005 SPTA no fatal (stc)
So what would 5 accidents in that time period make it, still safe?
BTDTGTTShirt, (whatever on Earth that all stands for
), Quite right, however some people just want to carry it on though don't they?