Bumpy Jumpers
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: UK
Bumpy Jumpers
Ladies, Gentleman.... a quick question!
Am i the only person in this modern caring sharing air force who believes that we now operate what is effectively a reverse discrimination policy.
Why oh why do I frequently see, shall we say-- bumpy jumpers( and I don't mean fat herc mates who can't pass their annual fitness test), being afforded far more opportunities, being given far more benefit of doubt, and generally getting far more priority in most aspects of service training/life, than their flat jumpered colleagues??
I'd be most interested to see whether this is just the view of an old knacker like myself, or whether anybody else has similiar thoughts????
Am i the only person in this modern caring sharing air force who believes that we now operate what is effectively a reverse discrimination policy.
Why oh why do I frequently see, shall we say-- bumpy jumpers( and I don't mean fat herc mates who can't pass their annual fitness test), being afforded far more opportunities, being given far more benefit of doubt, and generally getting far more priority in most aspects of service training/life, than their flat jumpered colleagues??
I'd be most interested to see whether this is just the view of an old knacker like myself, or whether anybody else has similiar thoughts????
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: wilts
iccarus
couldnt agree more mate. i've had enough of the positive discrimination that goes on. No longer does your ability really matter... good guys are getting over looked due to the numbers game of having girls in certain positions.....
couldnt agree more mate. i've had enough of the positive discrimination that goes on. No longer does your ability really matter... good guys are getting over looked due to the numbers game of having girls in certain positions.....
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,083
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From: London/Oxford/New York
Solid Rust Twotter,
It is certainly NOT found in all walks of life!
In the fields in which I operate the only thing that can get you anywhere is ability, promotion is on merit and who or what you are counts for nothing, in theory.
If anything the absolute opposite of what you are dripping on about exists, women still face a glass ceiling in most professions and by far the vast majority of those with clout and power are white, male, hetrosexual, middle class or above, protestant and married with 2.1 kids.
I suggest your problem stems from a chronic lack of leadership in the very highest echelons.
It is certainly NOT found in all walks of life!
In the fields in which I operate the only thing that can get you anywhere is ability, promotion is on merit and who or what you are counts for nothing, in theory.
If anything the absolute opposite of what you are dripping on about exists, women still face a glass ceiling in most professions and by far the vast majority of those with clout and power are white, male, hetrosexual, middle class or above, protestant and married with 2.1 kids.
I suggest your problem stems from a chronic lack of leadership in the very highest echelons.
Champagne anyone...?
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,422
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From: EGDL
Can't say I've noticed to be honest.
Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but I don't see any of the women I work with getting any special treatment when it comes to jobs and promotions etc. They all seem to do their bit like everyone else and just get on with it.
Non issue IMHO
Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but I don't see any of the women I work with getting any special treatment when it comes to jobs and promotions etc. They all seem to do their bit like everyone else and just get on with it.
Non issue IMHO
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Planet Tharg
Pr00ne
Women are but a small part of the AA equation. As you so rightly put it, lack of adequate leadership is the problem and a feel good alternative is introduced as a sop to their critics. I believe all promotion should be on merit but if AA hasn't yet reached all walks of life, it soon will. Merit, hard work and ability will be redundant in the face of the dribbling luvvie refusal to accept it as a basis for promotion or even when appointing someone to do the job.
What price a one legged pygmy lesbian single mother more employable than your average male?
Women are but a small part of the AA equation. As you so rightly put it, lack of adequate leadership is the problem and a feel good alternative is introduced as a sop to their critics. I believe all promotion should be on merit but if AA hasn't yet reached all walks of life, it soon will. Merit, hard work and ability will be redundant in the face of the dribbling luvvie refusal to accept it as a basis for promotion or even when appointing someone to do the job.
What price a one legged pygmy lesbian single mother more employable than your average male?
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Posts: n/a
It seems a bit of a shame to hear that the WRAF are
The females in the RN are treated equally and are given the same opportunities, training, pay and respect as every one else. It makes me wonder if that recent thread/news reference abuse in the RAF had any substance.
being afforded far more opportunities, being given far more benefit of doubt, and generally getting far more priority in most aspects of service training/life, than their flat jumpered colleagues
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 67
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From: Well North of the M25
Views received and understood, but how about this for a change of tack.....
Women in the armed forces are a small percentage of the total man power ('scuse the pun) available. As such the women generally clump together and have more 'girle only' social do's than the blokes. This, due to the more isolated nature of their existance, seems to permiate the rank structure (esp in the Air force, I believe) more than any of the social clubs that the guys have. This could lead to the concern that is voiced by the original poster. I'm saying it may appear to happen, but that is not what is ACTUALLY happening!
Discuss?
Women in the armed forces are a small percentage of the total man power ('scuse the pun) available. As such the women generally clump together and have more 'girle only' social do's than the blokes. This, due to the more isolated nature of their existance, seems to permiate the rank structure (esp in the Air force, I believe) more than any of the social clubs that the guys have. This could lead to the concern that is voiced by the original poster. I'm saying it may appear to happen, but that is not what is ACTUALLY happening!
Discuss?
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,373
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From: Home
Hyd3, what is wrong with you?
You write like a computer generated RN Boll@cks disseminator programmed with phrases from various out of date BRs by some insane GL T@sser!
The Navy I am in bears no relation the one you keep talking about, THANK GOD!
Just my opinion........
You write like a computer generated RN Boll@cks disseminator programmed with phrases from various out of date BRs by some insane GL T@sser!
The Navy I am in bears no relation the one you keep talking about, THANK GOD!
Just my opinion........
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6
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From: birmingham
Females in the RN being treated equally???
hmmm.. didn't seem that way when I did my first part of the aircrew survival training in the New Forest . First day on course they stated if you couldn't pass the 1.5 mile run they wouldn't let you continue on course. One of our girls failed by over a minute, if i remember correctly, and was allowed to continue.
Later on during the week the stretcher run comes around, she gives up after around 2km and does the rest in the back of a Land Rover, she was still allowed to continue the course.
Onto the sea survival drills the next week, she couldn't inflate her single man life raft and claimed that she was being pulled under from the weight of it (despite being in a goon suit full of air and wearing a life jacket), a member of the staff had to help her with inflate it and get into it.
For the course critique at the end they recieved 24 compliants from our group of 25 asking why this one person was allowed to continue with the course having failed on some of the core tasks.
We were told that the decision was out of their hands and they were told to pass this person.
Totally looked to us like a case of positive discrimination.
Having said all this the other girls on our course were absolute stars and had got through it all with no problems. It just seemed they were intent on passing this one girl.
hmmm.. didn't seem that way when I did my first part of the aircrew survival training in the New Forest . First day on course they stated if you couldn't pass the 1.5 mile run they wouldn't let you continue on course. One of our girls failed by over a minute, if i remember correctly, and was allowed to continue.
Later on during the week the stretcher run comes around, she gives up after around 2km and does the rest in the back of a Land Rover, she was still allowed to continue the course.
Onto the sea survival drills the next week, she couldn't inflate her single man life raft and claimed that she was being pulled under from the weight of it (despite being in a goon suit full of air and wearing a life jacket), a member of the staff had to help her with inflate it and get into it.
For the course critique at the end they recieved 24 compliants from our group of 25 asking why this one person was allowed to continue with the course having failed on some of the core tasks.
We were told that the decision was out of their hands and they were told to pass this person.
Totally looked to us like a case of positive discrimination.
Having said all this the other girls on our course were absolute stars and had got through it all with no problems. It just seemed they were intent on passing this one girl.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 68
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From: UK
Now, just to clarify.....
Many of ythe young lASSEs i have worked with are exceptionally tolerant, hard working and able......However, even they sometimes admit that, had they been graced with meat and two vedge, then things might be rather different....
What am i talking about?..... well, extra flying training hours, more chance of having rules bent(particularly fitness training), photo/TV opportunities(although in fairness I might crack the lens),
For many of the chicks who know me in a proffessional and social arena--I salute and applaud your efforts in a male dominated environment.
Those of you however, who give the rest of the chicks a bad name(and you know who you are), please stop playing the system for all its worth.
Does no-one else have any other examples?
Many of ythe young lASSEs i have worked with are exceptionally tolerant, hard working and able......However, even they sometimes admit that, had they been graced with meat and two vedge, then things might be rather different....
What am i talking about?..... well, extra flying training hours, more chance of having rules bent(particularly fitness training), photo/TV opportunities(although in fairness I might crack the lens),
For many of the chicks who know me in a proffessional and social arena--I salute and applaud your efforts in a male dominated environment.
Those of you however, who give the rest of the chicks a bad name(and you know who you are), please stop playing the system for all its worth.
Does no-one else have any other examples?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
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From: Soon to be somewhere else...
When a colleague of mine found out she was promoted (she was from a 'visible ethnic minority' - I believe that is the term now) said for all to hear 'I'm glad I'm not a white bloke'. Mind you, she still accepted the offer of promotion!
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
V E M or W O G
What's the difference? Both are denigrating TLAs applied to minority groups, in my view. The fact that one was invented by the political correctos and the other wasn't is nihil ad rem....
One of the few things I ever heard that tw@t known as 'Thrombo' say which made some sense was that discrimination only exists when someone makes an issue of it....
What's the difference? Both are denigrating TLAs applied to minority groups, in my view. The fact that one was invented by the political correctos and the other wasn't is nihil ad rem....
One of the few things I ever heard that tw@t known as 'Thrombo' say which made some sense was that discrimination only exists when someone makes an issue of it....
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Excuse me! WRAF....is that not in itself a sexist concept?
Why not drop all the prehistoric baggage and simply call it the RAF and include everyone of the off blue uniformed crowd as one big happy family?
Why not drop all the prehistoric baggage and simply call it the RAF and include everyone of the off blue uniformed crowd as one big happy family?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,776
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From: UK
Already been done - some years ago. The branch 'WRAF' ceased to exist about 10 years ago [open to correction in the timescale]. Everybody belongs to the RAF despite the lumpy bits.
Tights and handbags can be issued to all RAF personnel, as opposed to just the WRAF in the good old days...
Tights and handbags can be issued to all RAF personnel, as opposed to just the WRAF in the good old days...
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Bouncing around the Holding pattern
Ah ha,
Got you Hyd3.
How do you expect equallity with comments like
Treat everyone fairly, equally, politely and according to the establised rank structure and everyone gets on fine.
Hold doors to everyone as the "gentlemanly" thing rather than for a lady.
I'd love to be old fashioned about things, but in order to be in the 21st century armed forces, one must see only cap badge and rank braid, not lumps or skin colour.
Or is that elitist. F##k it, lets abolish rank as well. Then everone's the same!
Got you Hyd3.
How do you expect equallity with comments like
I don't think it would be kind to call the ladies "Crabs" would it?
Hold doors to everyone as the "gentlemanly" thing rather than for a lady.
I'd love to be old fashioned about things, but in order to be in the 21st century armed forces, one must see only cap badge and rank braid, not lumps or skin colour.
Or is that elitist. F##k it, lets abolish rank as well. Then everone's the same!