SeaKing Love em or Hate em?
It's not just an adventure....
it's just a job!
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SeaKing Love em or Hate em?
Hey Guys/Gals
The old SeaPig has taken quite a bashing over the years. I know I loved the time I spent on them and I now fly, in addition to other types the S61N. Its the DC-3 of the RW world. What are your thoughts about the old girl?
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
The old SeaPig has taken quite a bashing over the years. I know I loved the time I spent on them and I now fly, in addition to other types the S61N. Its the DC-3 of the RW world. What are your thoughts about the old girl?
Cheers,
OffshoreIgor
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Rig Bloke,
Although I haven't flown the aircraft it does appear that the Sea King is seen everywhere and the tax payer is most certainly receiving his/her 'bang for buck'.
The fact that where ever there is something 'kicking off' in the world, there is a Sea King. Slow, not able to lift much but there when you want it. I still haven't worked out why the Navy Boys were in Bosnia for so long when surely it was the realm of non-amphibious Support Helicopters (Puma, Merlin, etc). Perhaps it has nothing to do with the aircraft but the high training of the crews that can operate worldwide with minimum of pre-deployment training?
And Beags - fishing for bite this early? I don't think the DECs or DPA have an 'ugliness' factor during the procurement process - but then again I am not too sure what they have in the process full stop!
Finally, like it or hate it - the Sea King is here to stay as according to my Junglie mates as the SABR project is dead in the water as the NAO report is ignored and there is not enough money to replace them. The latest inmformation suggests 2020.
How does this compare to the VC 10 or the Jag in length of Service?
Although I haven't flown the aircraft it does appear that the Sea King is seen everywhere and the tax payer is most certainly receiving his/her 'bang for buck'.
The fact that where ever there is something 'kicking off' in the world, there is a Sea King. Slow, not able to lift much but there when you want it. I still haven't worked out why the Navy Boys were in Bosnia for so long when surely it was the realm of non-amphibious Support Helicopters (Puma, Merlin, etc). Perhaps it has nothing to do with the aircraft but the high training of the crews that can operate worldwide with minimum of pre-deployment training?
And Beags - fishing for bite this early? I don't think the DECs or DPA have an 'ugliness' factor during the procurement process - but then again I am not too sure what they have in the process full stop!
Finally, like it or hate it - the Sea King is here to stay as according to my Junglie mates as the SABR project is dead in the water as the NAO report is ignored and there is not enough money to replace them. The latest inmformation suggests 2020.
How does this compare to the VC 10 or the Jag in length of Service?
Suspicion breeds confidence
It does most things pretty well and that's all you can ask from one design. Yes its old, but they were ithe un-sung heros of the FW, without them winning would have been much harder. The Merlin the has more headroom though. 
For the job it does, it and her crews demand respect.
It ain't ugly, that badge must surely be welded on the Apache.
And there is no shame in being a Yellow Belly.
It ain't ugly, that badge must surely be welded on the Apache.
And there is no shame in being a Yellow Belly.
Suspicion breeds confidence
...and he deserved it. I had a long chat with Simon Weston about it. Not pretty.
My point was that the public was more aware at the time of the Shar's achievements and they grabbed headlines despite the far fewer numbers of sorties flown and the SKs killed more Whales
My point was that the public was more aware at the time of the Shar's achievements and they grabbed headlines despite the far fewer numbers of sorties flown and the SKs killed more Whales
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King (or Queen) of the Skies!
OK I am going to bite! Don't be so parochial Beags! The Sea King is the Queen of the Skies - I have over 3000 hours in them - started flying them back in 1979 and am still flying them today - in fact I was flying one this morning in the Cornish sunshine!
This helicopter has been the workhorse for the RN and RAF for over 30 years and has proved its worth many times over. It may not look sexy and shiny like some of your fixed wing machines (or even a Merlin!) but it can transition from a hover to forward flight with majestic ease, reach into the depths of offshore fishing territories, pluck stricken sailors from the sea and return them to the safety of their (or our) homeland without a second thought. It lifts a quarter of its own weight (OK it's not a Chinook!), seeks out submarines (well it used to) and is used by many foreign countries in many different roles.
I will not hear a bad word against the old beast. I love her and I always will! Hoorah for the Sea King!
This helicopter has been the workhorse for the RN and RAF for over 30 years and has proved its worth many times over. It may not look sexy and shiny like some of your fixed wing machines (or even a Merlin!) but it can transition from a hover to forward flight with majestic ease, reach into the depths of offshore fishing territories, pluck stricken sailors from the sea and return them to the safety of their (or our) homeland without a second thought. It lifts a quarter of its own weight (OK it's not a Chinook!), seeks out submarines (well it used to) and is used by many foreign countries in many different roles.
I will not hear a bad word against the old beast. I love her and I always will! Hoorah for the Sea King!
MaroonMan
"I still haven't worked out why the Navy Boys were in Bosnia for so long"
A partial explanation may be that the SK4 has a comprehensive self defence suite (MAW, Chaff & Flare, RWR). DIRCM probably wasn't fitted at the time but there was an IRJ. Wasn't it about this time she got Kevlar flooring?
At the risk of repeating myself I think the Sea King, in all variants, is simply a magnificent aeroplane. And whatever happens to SABR, the 4s are among the youngest airframes and an OSD of 2018 looks conservative. Again, I may be wrong but was the last Cat 5 not during the Falklands? That's some record.
"I still haven't worked out why the Navy Boys were in Bosnia for so long"
A partial explanation may be that the SK4 has a comprehensive self defence suite (MAW, Chaff & Flare, RWR). DIRCM probably wasn't fitted at the time but there was an IRJ. Wasn't it about this time she got Kevlar flooring?
At the risk of repeating myself I think the Sea King, in all variants, is simply a magnificent aeroplane. And whatever happens to SABR, the 4s are among the youngest airframes and an OSD of 2018 looks conservative. Again, I may be wrong but was the last Cat 5 not during the Falklands? That's some record.
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...but when I'm in the pooh and it's hovering above me with a BUFF Knocker dangling on a bit of wire - it's the most beautiful aircraft in the world!
Been in it dozens of times whilst doing drills various. Mega respect for ac and crews that fly them. It'll be going for a good few years yet!
Been in it dozens of times whilst doing drills various. Mega respect for ac and crews that fly them. It'll be going for a good few years yet!
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Big respect for the Sea King community, but my own personal belief (and please let me know if I begin to sound like WEBF) the reason why both the RN Commando drivers and SAR boys do so well is not because of the aircraft (although I agree it does as advertised on the tin) but because the crews are trained to higher standard and have the focus of aviation foremost and not an underfunded, under resourced organisation that still believes in squad marches, living in fields and being operated by non aviation aware HQ/Brigade.
The RN appear to be able to rock up anywhere in the world and do the bizz with the minimum of fuss to everyones satisfaction. The AAC's experience in Telic saw them sidelined because they tipped up in theatre and required a substantial 'beat up' package to get them anywhere near operational as all of the pre-deployment training had been ground focussed on infantry stuff.
So the Sea King is a good aircraft but only at the hands of experienced, trained and current crews.
The RN appear to be able to rock up anywhere in the world and do the bizz with the minimum of fuss to everyones satisfaction. The AAC's experience in Telic saw them sidelined because they tipped up in theatre and required a substantial 'beat up' package to get them anywhere near operational as all of the pre-deployment training had been ground focussed on infantry stuff.
So the Sea King is a good aircraft but only at the hands of experienced, trained and current crews.
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Fear God, honour the King!!
They can't lift the most, they can't fly the furthest or the fastest, but they're a great jack-of-all-trades. (A bit of Jungly cunning helps as well!)
BEagle - "Ugly"!!? From a man who wore a uniform the same colour as a medication for genital lice, that's a bit rich!!
They can't lift the most, they can't fly the furthest or the fastest, but they're a great jack-of-all-trades. (A bit of Jungly cunning helps as well!)
BEagle - "Ugly"!!? From a man who wore a uniform the same colour as a medication for genital lice, that's a bit rich!!
snafu, I bow to your superior knowledge of genital lice........
Silberfuchs, the fact that some were prepeared to abide by rules and regulations is hardly grounds for criticism. If those were inappropriate for the operational theatre, then they should have been amended. Gung-ho "We'll give it a crack anyway" attitudes are not clever and just end up killing people. As does the stupid mentality which does not define at least the minimum crew rest time.
The SeaKing might be an ugly old thing, but it does the job very well!
Silberfuchs, the fact that some were prepeared to abide by rules and regulations is hardly grounds for criticism. If those were inappropriate for the operational theatre, then they should have been amended. Gung-ho "We'll give it a crack anyway" attitudes are not clever and just end up killing people. As does the stupid mentality which does not define at least the minimum crew rest time.
The SeaKing might be an ugly old thing, but it does the job very well!
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Beags,
That is so unlike you. I do declare I detect a bite, if not a full blown nibble!
I am surprised that you infer that the Junglies lack of rules (thereby placing trust/Mission Command with the aircraft commander) may be equated to a 'Gung Ho' attitude, when there does not appear to be the statistical evidence to support your jist of post.
Sadly I must be with Front Seater on this one and view the RN Sea King operators as an experienced bunch who do not require the same level of rules and regulations because primarily it will significantly reduce Operational Capability (e.g. I don't think the Al Fawah peninsular was recce'd for wires prior to the assault etc) and secondly it appears that the Junglies benefit from either alot of operational experience or realistically train for their tactical role.
You are obviously a rules and regulations man Beags. I believe that what the Junglie fleet have is experienced crews to interpret the rules and regulations and place into context. Without tempting fate, have a look at the stats on incidents/accidents to inform your argument and see if they equate to 'Gung Ho' attitudes (by any rotary fleet, let alone Battlefield Helicopters).
Supervision and authorisation throughout the chain of command still holds good.
That is so unlike you. I do declare I detect a bite, if not a full blown nibble!
I am surprised that you infer that the Junglies lack of rules (thereby placing trust/Mission Command with the aircraft commander) may be equated to a 'Gung Ho' attitude, when there does not appear to be the statistical evidence to support your jist of post.
Sadly I must be with Front Seater on this one and view the RN Sea King operators as an experienced bunch who do not require the same level of rules and regulations because primarily it will significantly reduce Operational Capability (e.g. I don't think the Al Fawah peninsular was recce'd for wires prior to the assault etc) and secondly it appears that the Junglies benefit from either alot of operational experience or realistically train for their tactical role.
You are obviously a rules and regulations man Beags. I believe that what the Junglie fleet have is experienced crews to interpret the rules and regulations and place into context. Without tempting fate, have a look at the stats on incidents/accidents to inform your argument and see if they equate to 'Gung Ho' attitudes (by any rotary fleet, let alone Battlefield Helicopters).
Supervision and authorisation throughout the chain of command still holds good.
No mate, certainly not inferring that the RN chums were gung-ho. But any "Screw the rules, we'll give it a go" mentality is simply unacceptable anywhere. However, the only 'rules and regs' should be sensible ones; if the in-theatre ones were considered inappropriate, there was surely a case for changing them? Some pretty stupid rules were indeed in place for far too long once upon a time; the non-observance by some of the ludicrous V-force 'co-pilot phase limits' were actually described by the Flight Safety world at the time as being safer than the stupid Bomber Group rules were! So if it needs changing, get it changed rather than just turning a Nelsonian eye to it!
Regrettably some who view helos as the General's personal taxi or a three-dimensional horse lack understanding of simple things like Crew Duty Time - it is not infinite despite the fact that they might think so!
And there was supposed to have been a after my comment to snafu!
Regrettably some who view helos as the General's personal taxi or a three-dimensional horse lack understanding of simple things like Crew Duty Time - it is not infinite despite the fact that they might think so!
And there was supposed to have been a
after my comment to snafu!