Flying Pay!
Flying Pay!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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perhaps taking flying pay away from aircrew posted to ground tours, through no intention of their own, will be the final straw and so may just leave. maybe it should be called aircrew retention pay instead but either way aircrew do deserve that extra bit of cash.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: here
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ZH875 - '...the RAF is run by Pilots for Pilots.'
Actually you're wrong - its run by the MOD, the majority of which wouldn't know one end of an aircraft from another.
Spoils that argument.
Actually you're wrong - its run by the MOD, the majority of which wouldn't know one end of an aircraft from another.
Spoils that argument.
That would be popular!
Poster "Sorry chum, it's off to a ground tour for you, have a 25% pay cut"
You "Thanks very much, Sir, you can shove your ground tour up your a*se, I'm off!"
Perhaps if we did call it retention pay (cos that's what it actually is) we could stop getting the same whining question every couple of months or so!
Poster "Sorry chum, it's off to a ground tour for you, have a 25% pay cut"
You "Thanks very much, Sir, you can shove your ground tour up your a*se, I'm off!"
Perhaps if we did call it retention pay (cos that's what it actually is) we could stop getting the same whining question every couple of months or so!
Why is it that many members of this forum say that they will 'leave' if they fall upon hard times? Did we all not sign a contract with minimum service? Just because we can't have our way all the time it's not an excuse to throw the teddies from the pram and threaten to leave.
Smacks of mercenary un-professionalism and weak veiled threats?
After all why join the military if thats your attitude. Too many personal agendas and not enough team work from you Blue types!!
Smacks of mercenary un-professionalism and weak veiled threats?
After all why join the military if thats your attitude. Too many personal agendas and not enough team work from you Blue types!!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Just down the road from ISK
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A very ambitious second-ever post there Mr Where2next. Simple answer is, would you carry on working if your pay was cut by 25%??
I thought not!
Granted some aircrew are in non-flying-related jobs. Not many. Those who choose to stay in a ground tour will, after 3 years start to have their pay cut - or that's the way I understand it.
Given the state of my mucked up pay statement for the last 6 months, if you follow the logical arguement that people shouldn't be paid for something that they are not doing, the whole of blunt-dom shouldn't be paid. Please sort it out blunties!!
The stark answer is because that's the way it is. You want flying pay then you should have tried harder at school!
I thought not!
Granted some aircrew are in non-flying-related jobs. Not many. Those who choose to stay in a ground tour will, after 3 years start to have their pay cut - or that's the way I understand it.
Given the state of my mucked up pay statement for the last 6 months, if you follow the logical arguement that people shouldn't be paid for something that they are not doing, the whole of blunt-dom shouldn't be paid. Please sort it out blunties!!
The stark answer is because that's the way it is. You want flying pay then you should have tried harder at school!
It does seem to me that as a general rule, flying pay should be much more targeted. I don"t believe anyone joins to be aircrew to get flying pay - you join to go bl@@dy fast at 200', or to fly NOE in a helicopter or whatever. So why do we pay aircrew ANY flying pay in the early years. Removing it would have no effect on recruitment (even if we were desperate for applicants, which we aren't).
The money could then be used to help retain the experience that we need in the cockpit. This would be far better than the tiered system that exists at the moment, or at the very least it would release more funds to make it more worthwhile.
The money could then be used to help retain the experience that we need in the cockpit. This would be far better than the tiered system that exists at the moment, or at the very least it would release more funds to make it more worthwhile.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Delay it as in not pay it till after an OCU ? Think you'll find that's what has happened.
As far as being mecenary, you join to do a job and that's that. I didn't join to sit behind a desk. If I don't like it, I'll leave and vote with my feet. No song and dance or fuss made. Simple. That's what PVR is for.
PS. As we're on the subject of benefits (tenuous link I know) why is it that, as QR's states, personnel on flights over a certain number of hours should travel Business Class never do except those in the Admin branch that somehow manage to ? Hmmmm . . . . .. . .
As far as being mecenary, you join to do a job and that's that. I didn't join to sit behind a desk. If I don't like it, I'll leave and vote with my feet. No song and dance or fuss made. Simple. That's what PVR is for.
PS. As we're on the subject of benefits (tenuous link I know) why is it that, as QR's states, personnel on flights over a certain number of hours should travel Business Class never do except those in the Admin branch that somehow manage to ? Hmmmm . . . . .. . .
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Sorry,
I joined for the money
and it's very nice thank you
Oh, and in 20 years I have never, ever travelled anything other than cattle class.
The reason flying pay is paid whilst aircrew are on a ground tour is because those are they terms and conditions that they joined under.
I joined for the money
and it's very nice thank you
Oh, and in 20 years I have never, ever travelled anything other than cattle class.
The reason flying pay is paid whilst aircrew are on a ground tour is because those are they terms and conditions that they joined under.
This old chestnut again 
As mentioned, if you stay in a blunt job for long enough, it starts to wither. And, it's not paid until you're through your type's OCU now either.
Plus, it's not purely for "flying," I remember being told. Part of it's meant to be in recognition of the extra training and capability aircrew have
so if you're in a ground job which requires an aircrew mate, your flying pay's reflecting the fact that your experience is needed.
Or something like that. I'll edit after a few beers
As mentioned, if you stay in a blunt job for long enough, it starts to wither. And, it's not paid until you're through your type's OCU now either.
Plus, it's not purely for "flying," I remember being told. Part of it's meant to be in recognition of the extra training and capability aircrew have
so if you're in a ground job which requires an aircrew mate, your flying pay's reflecting the fact that your experience is needed.Or something like that. I'll edit after a few beers
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Well North of the M25
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Whenever we come back from a ****ty job in the hills at night, with cloud or whatever on the deck, our engineers always respond 'I guess that's what you guys' get flying pay for!' I suppose it is, but yes, I would probably do the job just for the love of it.... However, it really would not be long until the civvie sector would pay oh so much more, for much less risk to yours truly. The money is not everything, but it is nice to get some recognition for a bloody tough job in the face of danger. Be it danger from the enemy or the elements, either can quickly kill you if you are not ready for them!!
That being said, the role of the ground crews is invaluable. We could not fly and keep a 98%+ 15min readiness 24hrs a day 365 days a year without them. Cheers guys- and in my experience, the GC's get as much of a buzz out of a successful rescue/sortie as the aircrew do. And so they should....... How does the dark blue saying go? Oh yes, the team works! We are all here for the same job. Be that job in the air or on the ground. One would not happen without the other. Supply dudes know what they can claim, aircrew get retention pay, SAR engineers get the rough end of the stick....
That being said, the role of the ground crews is invaluable. We could not fly and keep a 98%+ 15min readiness 24hrs a day 365 days a year without them. Cheers guys- and in my experience, the GC's get as much of a buzz out of a successful rescue/sortie as the aircrew do. And so they should....... How does the dark blue saying go? Oh yes, the team works! We are all here for the same job. Be that job in the air or on the ground. One would not happen without the other. Supply dudes know what they can claim, aircrew get retention pay, SAR engineers get the rough end of the stick....
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
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Mis Old Git
I suspect that I'm even old older git than you - can't comment on the miserable bit though. But you're absolutely right, until the T&C's are changed, I would've thought that there's no point in knocking those, or their views, that draw flying pay - whatever their circumstances. Change the rules by all means, but don't advocate such change out of envious or 'equality' motives. I like to think that although I sat on my butt for around a quarter of my RAF career, I was justified in drawing my flying pay for that period by virtue of my overall contibution in the air over the other three quarters. Not an aircrew brag or a them/us issue, simply a reflection of the job.
I suspect that I'm even old older git than you - can't comment on the miserable bit though. But you're absolutely right, until the T&C's are changed, I would've thought that there's no point in knocking those, or their views, that draw flying pay - whatever their circumstances. Change the rules by all means, but don't advocate such change out of envious or 'equality' motives. I like to think that although I sat on my butt for around a quarter of my RAF career, I was justified in drawing my flying pay for that period by virtue of my overall contibution in the air over the other three quarters. Not an aircrew brag or a them/us issue, simply a reflection of the job.
How often have we visited this hoary old topic over the years? It should have nowt to do with retention - why not just pay aircrew extra - in the main they deserve it....
....on the other hand I can think of a lot of deserving cases for retention pay....
....ME
....on the other hand I can think of a lot of deserving cases for retention pay....
....ME
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I knew typing 250' would open up the wormhole!
...I know - TTA's and all that! (and before somebody throws it in yes, 50' over the water at night on ops - concentrates the selective radial scan somewhat!)
And I'm not even going to mention the "as required" when the bad guys shot back.
This whole thread is beginning to reek of AdminGuru!
...I know - TTA's and all that! (and before somebody throws it in yes, 50' over the water at night on ops - concentrates the selective radial scan somewhat!)
And I'm not even going to mention the "as required" when the bad guys shot back.
This whole thread is beginning to reek of AdminGuru!