New SAR Cabs
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Great Britain
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detgnome - a check with me salty friends would indicate that this was probably a one off using some aspirants on holdover due to delays in the Merlin pipeline. 6Z3 - target fixation has never been a problem for the WAFUs (except across a bar after the 5th pink gin). The bend in the pipe turned out to be nothing more than a kink.
Up periscope!
Up periscope!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Lancashire, United Kingdom
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Our SAR cabs are Sea Kings and the only ones we have left in the Fleet apart from SAR are painted green or have a bag on the side. To constantly send pilots from those 2 frame types after one tour (where they have just learned how to fly a Sea King) to fly the SAR will deplete the baggers and junglies of their mid management expertise. We have no OCU for SAR and the RAF do, so why not use them instead of reinventing the wheel? Isn't that what jointery is for? It may also be easier to train people in a different role after they have already flown the SK for a couple of years.
Junglie Chinook? Now there's a thing....... we will get them the same time that the X Wings are procured.
Junglie Chinook? Now there's a thing....... we will get them the same time that the X Wings are procured.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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So much for talking about the new cabs!
Yes, harmonisation is obviously some way off with the backbiting and dissension in the ranks one reads here. For those of you who have given the ‘Civilian’ rescue crews some support….thanks. Before some of you became military SAR gods we were there in your shoes.
‘Pants-down’ Quote: “hovering off the cliffs in Glen Coe in the middle of the night in a screaming snow storm! The flying experience gained in these conditions is excellent and prepares pilots for any other role. Search and rescue over land is a completely different ball game from coastal and sea rescue. Very few mountains and granite clouds out over the briney!
Blah, blah….yes that role is a few thousand hours ago now and the mixed ex-military and civilian trained Bristow crews have enough experience gained over the last 20 years to continue training it’s own replacements now without drawing you away from Divisions.
BTDT and got the skid marks to prove it. SAR is the best flying platform you can get; sure you don’t want to see it go from the Service you fly for. MCT big deal, give the ‘pingles’ something to do it’s not that hard. We get as much training flight time as any SAR Squadron, perhaps more with our serviceability record. Before someone talks about fudged figures...bollocks. The Platform is not from 'wastelands' the average engineer has 30+ years experience, not to mention good support and IHUMS forecasting. Our crewmen trained your present ‘Senior’ Crewmen, so no problem with experience there either. Sure we have company training SOP’s that restrict us about as much as JSP318, but for SAR ops the CAA enable us to fly to a ‘justifiable’ unrestricted limit. If the ‘Client’, MCA or other want us to sit on goggles up a mountain all night and get the brown seat of pants wonderful military type flying you think we don't have or get then think again. You had better believe we would be given the equipment, training and authorisation to do it in an instant.
Hey, when harmonisation does eventually kick in due to economic pressure and we end up sitting together in the same well maintained (by civilians) aircraft doing the same job with the ‘civilian’ captain on his £75k+ salary, tell me you won’t be tempted to see the light? Long term leasing of land/hangarage and buildings is cheaper the having one 'Kinmouth' base. It’s not all about salutes, parades and mess dinners you know.
Now about these new cabs…………………..!
Yes, harmonisation is obviously some way off with the backbiting and dissension in the ranks one reads here. For those of you who have given the ‘Civilian’ rescue crews some support….thanks. Before some of you became military SAR gods we were there in your shoes.
‘Pants-down’ Quote: “hovering off the cliffs in Glen Coe in the middle of the night in a screaming snow storm! The flying experience gained in these conditions is excellent and prepares pilots for any other role. Search and rescue over land is a completely different ball game from coastal and sea rescue. Very few mountains and granite clouds out over the briney!
Blah, blah….yes that role is a few thousand hours ago now and the mixed ex-military and civilian trained Bristow crews have enough experience gained over the last 20 years to continue training it’s own replacements now without drawing you away from Divisions.
BTDT and got the skid marks to prove it. SAR is the best flying platform you can get; sure you don’t want to see it go from the Service you fly for. MCT big deal, give the ‘pingles’ something to do it’s not that hard. We get as much training flight time as any SAR Squadron, perhaps more with our serviceability record. Before someone talks about fudged figures...bollocks. The Platform is not from 'wastelands' the average engineer has 30+ years experience, not to mention good support and IHUMS forecasting. Our crewmen trained your present ‘Senior’ Crewmen, so no problem with experience there either. Sure we have company training SOP’s that restrict us about as much as JSP318, but for SAR ops the CAA enable us to fly to a ‘justifiable’ unrestricted limit. If the ‘Client’, MCA or other want us to sit on goggles up a mountain all night and get the brown seat of pants wonderful military type flying you think we don't have or get then think again. You had better believe we would be given the equipment, training and authorisation to do it in an instant.
Hey, when harmonisation does eventually kick in due to economic pressure and we end up sitting together in the same well maintained (by civilians) aircraft doing the same job with the ‘civilian’ captain on his £75k+ salary, tell me you won’t be tempted to see the light? Long term leasing of land/hangarage and buildings is cheaper the having one 'Kinmouth' base. It’s not all about salutes, parades and mess dinners you know.
Now about these new cabs…………………..!
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Scotch Land
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Bismark
Actually it will be the extra 4 Cabs to keep one going airborne, plus the extra 20-30 support/maintenance that keeps those civvies like NRDK on £75k+!! This still saves the Government (Tax payers) XXX millions per year. I'm not counting Buildings, houses, ATC, POL, Drivers, cooks & bottle washers, Mess staff, Regiment guards, Punka walahs ................etc, etc
Actually it will be the extra 4 Cabs to keep one going airborne, plus the extra 20-30 support/maintenance that keeps those civvies like NRDK on £75k+!! This still saves the Government (Tax payers) XXX millions per year. I'm not counting Buildings, houses, ATC, POL, Drivers, cooks & bottle washers, Mess staff, Regiment guards, Punka walahs ................etc, etc
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Cheers Crabette
Looks like your basic economics of the Military cost to provide SAR has killed off all those previous forum contributions. The top brass know the true cost of mil SAR and are rightly concerned that the smoke and mirrors trick isn't working. It can be carried out just as effectively and at a huge tax payer saving with a greater 'Civilian' involvement. Personally I think a mixed Mil/Civ operation would serve all involved at the sharp end including the 'Casualty'.
Looks like your basic economics of the Military cost to provide SAR has killed off all those previous forum contributions. The top brass know the true cost of mil SAR and are rightly concerned that the smoke and mirrors trick isn't working. It can be carried out just as effectively and at a huge tax payer saving with a greater 'Civilian' involvement. Personally I think a mixed Mil/Civ operation would serve all involved at the sharp end including the 'Casualty'.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Where do some of you boys get your opinionated ideas from? The likes of McKeksdown, Jungly, Melchet 01 et al should do some research before mouthing off on a public forum. I speak from a wide and varied background with 10 years fast jet and 10 years rotary wing before joining the "civvy wasters" you lot are so good at describing. There is no difference hovering over Glen Coe in a snow storm to hovering in the Cuillins in a similar snow storm. What do you boys think we do and where do you get this "no inland rescue" idea? Have you ever heard of Stornoway? Do Sumburgh call up Lossie when the job is a night search on mainland Shetland? Get real and recognise expertise when it is staring you in the face. I am proud to have been part of a military training system second to none and I would like to tone down your collective arrogance. Many Civvy trained SAR commanders and co-pilots within the MCA are as good or better than many of my ex peers in her majesty's employ. So if your only incentive on this forum to to be so self congratulatory at your own unquestionable abilities I feel sorry for you all. Personally I am far more interested in exchanges of ideas and expertise with our colleages flying the yellow cabs.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Am i right in saying that CG Rescue 'MU' from Stornoway was involved in the initial search of the two F-15C's that had the accident on Ben MacDui in the Cairngorms, helping Lossie, Prestwick and Boulmer Yellow Cabs (before the MH-53's arrived).
If thats not inland, i don't know what is!
Razor
If thats not inland, i don't know what is!
Razor
Join Date: Nov 2004
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civvysar the way ahead
sell the lot to the civvies, but for god sake this idea of harmonisation "sabre sar" .......that would be a right laugh, a couple of military chaps sat up front with cheese boards and pink gins, can you imagine the reaction they would get from a couple of hairy arsed civvy winch ops in the back doing the real graft, when they try dishing out orders... i think a swift smash in the mouth would be quite a surpise for the chaps, it would never work, civvies do it far better anyhoo
Join Date: Jan 2004
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how many of you have actually done SAR or CSAR or trap or JPR, and how many are just spouting.
