Unrecognisable RAF
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Unrecognisable RAF
Reading some of the recent threads, notably U Need 2 Know, NCO Aircrew and Military Funnies, I have to say that I don't recognise the RAF that I left behind about ten years ago.
Also talking to those who are still in, the spirit seems to have gone completely.
So, am I right? Is it that bad? Or, is this just the cynical face that you're showing to the world outside?
Also talking to those who are still in, the spirit seems to have gone completely.
So, am I right? Is it that bad? Or, is this just the cynical face that you're showing to the world outside?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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It's not THAT bad! Yes, there are a load of "initiatives" that we all end up having a bit of a cynical whinge over, yes, we're a decreasing force but on a day to day level most of us can still have a good laugh. As a JO you can stay out of the way of a lot of this policy stuff if you want to and still go back to the mess of an evening, get a bit squiffy (just the 1 white wine spritzer for me obviously) and enjoy yourself.
This isn't a bad lifestyle if you ask me.
At work "the spirit" is definitely still there. More red tape probably but most people are here to do their job as well as they can. We're not all miserable all of the time!!
People don't tend to post stuff on pprune that they are generally happy with. More likely to have an anonymous gripe.
This isn't a bad lifestyle if you ask me.
At work "the spirit" is definitely still there. More red tape probably but most people are here to do their job as well as they can. We're not all miserable all of the time!!
People don't tend to post stuff on pprune that they are generally happy with. More likely to have an anonymous gripe.
JAFO,
15 years in and I still love it.
Can't speak for anybody else, but plenty of those around this neck of the woods seem to be enjoying themselves too. Banter is as good as ever.
Seems to me that a lot of the cynicism comes from people who have already left trying to convince everybody else that they made the right decision and there is nothing good left.
As tokentotty rightly said, people are more likely to start a thread on something that annoys them than something that they are happy with.
15 years in and I still love it.
Can't speak for anybody else, but plenty of those around this neck of the woods seem to be enjoying themselves too. Banter is as good as ever.
Seems to me that a lot of the cynicism comes from people who have already left trying to convince everybody else that they made the right decision and there is nothing good left.
As tokentotty rightly said, people are more likely to start a thread on something that annoys them than something that they are happy with.
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It's ****e! Too much time in the desert over the last few years. No top cover from the Airships, no recognition of the crap many of us have had to endure during Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq............just joined, welcome!
See how you feel in a few years, where is that redundancy application Biggles?
See how you feel in a few years, where is that redundancy application Biggles?
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JAFO's post struck a cord with me. Perhaps it is just the anonymity of Pprune - but pertaining to the Air Force, there do seem to have been far more negative threads over the past 18months than before. Perhaps there is just more negativity in light of the most recent defence spending reviews across all three services?
I left 20 years ago and peruse this forum as I am still generally interested in what is going on. I also have a few mates who are still in and very occasionally wonder what I'd be doing if I had stayed!
Very possibly, retraining for a "Do you want fries with that?," job!
Stik
I left 20 years ago and peruse this forum as I am still generally interested in what is going on. I also have a few mates who are still in and very occasionally wonder what I'd be doing if I had stayed!
Very possibly, retraining for a "Do you want fries with that?," job!
Stik
I'd still join the RAF I joined in 1968 like a shot.
I might perhaps even join the RAF of 2000.
But nothing would persuade me to join the RAF of 2004.......
I might perhaps even join the RAF of 2000.
But nothing would persuade me to join the RAF of 2004.......
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I'd agree that the RAF has changed massively in the 18 years I've been in.....but in the last 6 years I've been to the USA, Canada, Kenya, Oman, Qatar, UAE, Germany, Cyprus, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. (I've probably left some out but the memory fades under the affluence of incohol). OK - some of the dets have been really sh***y but some have been fantastic! You have to accept that things change!
I still like it.
SBG
I still like it.
SBG
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Yep, it's changing. Been in nearly 20 years and for 18 of them thoroughly enjoyed every minute (including the cr@ppy bits). However, over the last 2-3 years I have noticed the spring leaving the step of most of the people on the stn. The causes are as minor as they are numerous - death by a thousand paper cuts, as it was described to me a while ago.
However, one of the fundamental changes over the last 2-3 years is the lack of a senior officer (any Service) that speaks his mind (regardless of whether or not I like/dislike what he says). Can you imagine Maj General Inge putting up with the last round of ill thought-out cuts, or the gagging of the Service's central public relations offices?
Poor morale doesn't just 'happen', it has to be generated and unfortunately the hierarchy’s lack of leadership and, more importantly, support has chipped at the morale so badly that people I would have considered the most loyal, lively, fun and enlivened, are seriously looking at the details of the redundancy package.
Enjoyed it overall? Yes, very much. Recommend it as a future career option for a youngster ? . . . . not sure.
However, one of the fundamental changes over the last 2-3 years is the lack of a senior officer (any Service) that speaks his mind (regardless of whether or not I like/dislike what he says). Can you imagine Maj General Inge putting up with the last round of ill thought-out cuts, or the gagging of the Service's central public relations offices?
Poor morale doesn't just 'happen', it has to be generated and unfortunately the hierarchy’s lack of leadership and, more importantly, support has chipped at the morale so badly that people I would have considered the most loyal, lively, fun and enlivened, are seriously looking at the details of the redundancy package.
Enjoyed it overall? Yes, very much. Recommend it as a future career option for a youngster ? . . . . not sure.
I left the RAF after 26 years last year and its the best move I ever made. I loved my time in the forces and miss it like crazy but life goes on.
Easy to say "It was not the Air Force I joined" but in my case it was most certainly true.
Forget to many dets, forget manpower stretch, forget red tape.
Easy to say I miss the people but thats also true.
What made me leave??.
.
.
.
.
The Leaders of today.
At least the Scottish Gp Capt from a northern Q base could make a decision in years gone by. (He even gave me a lift to the runway caravan one day - Didnt have the heart to tell him I was calling "Sappho" not S*****!!)
The majority I dealt with in the last few years were more interested in protecting there own interests than those of the men they were supposed to lead, and one in particular made it quite clear on a excersise he would sacrifice the enlisted s*** rather than save them.
More worryingly his right hand men, although prepared to admit in private it was the wrong decision, were not prepared to question let alone challenge him, and I truely believe if the exercise had been for real they would have taken the same course of action. Weak kneed and cowardly to say the least.
Easy to say "It was not the Air Force I joined" but in my case it was most certainly true.
Forget to many dets, forget manpower stretch, forget red tape.
Easy to say I miss the people but thats also true.
What made me leave??.
.
.
.
.
The Leaders of today.
At least the Scottish Gp Capt from a northern Q base could make a decision in years gone by. (He even gave me a lift to the runway caravan one day - Didnt have the heart to tell him I was calling "Sappho" not S*****!!)
The majority I dealt with in the last few years were more interested in protecting there own interests than those of the men they were supposed to lead, and one in particular made it quite clear on a excersise he would sacrifice the enlisted s*** rather than save them.
More worryingly his right hand men, although prepared to admit in private it was the wrong decision, were not prepared to question let alone challenge him, and I truely believe if the exercise had been for real they would have taken the same course of action. Weak kneed and cowardly to say the least.
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Just to put my ha'penny worth in as a former Army flyer, I left 17 or so years ago.
I was 'Army barmy' and loving it. I then started to notice that the younger officers - Major and below - around me had undergone a subtle change in that they were constantly looking over their collective shoulders to check that they were seen to be toeing the party line - reluctant to make any decision that would be seen as even mildly against the system, even if they should have been looking after the 'lads'. In one of my better 'Mystic Meg' moments I saw the future and pulled the plug.
Now these same officers have risen through the ranks, they still refuse to buck the system even when the politicians and civil sevrvants make stupid cuts leaving the lower levels stretched beyond breaking point.
IMHO that is where the problems lie, not with the individuals that makes the decision to commit probably the best years of their lives to serving their country.
Wiz
ps can I have my 'Grumpy Old Man' badge now!
I was 'Army barmy' and loving it. I then started to notice that the younger officers - Major and below - around me had undergone a subtle change in that they were constantly looking over their collective shoulders to check that they were seen to be toeing the party line - reluctant to make any decision that would be seen as even mildly against the system, even if they should have been looking after the 'lads'. In one of my better 'Mystic Meg' moments I saw the future and pulled the plug.
Now these same officers have risen through the ranks, they still refuse to buck the system even when the politicians and civil sevrvants make stupid cuts leaving the lower levels stretched beyond breaking point.
IMHO that is where the problems lie, not with the individuals that makes the decision to commit probably the best years of their lives to serving their country.
Wiz
ps can I have my 'Grumpy Old Man' badge now!
I then started to notice that the younger officers - Major and below - around me had undergone a subtle change in that they were constantly looking over their collective shoulders to check that they were seen to be toeing the party line - reluctant to make any decision that would be seen as even mildly against the system, even if they should have been looking after the 'lads'. In one of my better 'Mystic Meg' moments I saw the future and pulled the plug.
Mind you i was known to lose my teddies with them
Completed a lot more than 25 years and am still enjoying the the life, however I too have some gripes. JO's some of them are excellent but too many are interested in themselves and forget the people working under them. Too many times the SNCO is asked to sort things out (I have no problem with that it is my job) but I would like some topcover if things don't work out and even a bit of praise if things work out. Too many people looking to grab the glory. Equipment is another huge gripe. There is not enough to go around, everything is budget based rather than ensuring your troops have the right kit. Too many people give the young recruits a hard time, they are the product of society and perhaps it is our job to encourage them in what we think is the right direction. Sorry for the soap box. I am still proud to be in the RAF.
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I've been in the RN for a short period of time compared to the rest of the old and bold, and I have to admit that I am already cynical about the system. There are definitely things that annoy me about the military, but I have to say the pros still outweigh the cons for the time being. I wonder, for those of you out there who have been serving for some time now, did the old hands in your day say that the armed forces were going to the dogs? For those of us who have joined in recent years we don't really know what it used to be like, so we just have to learn to get on with the system we have now. I wonder in a few years time when I become an old hand (if I decided to stay that long) will I be saying the armed forces have gone to the dogs?
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Like beagle,
If we could take the RAF back to where it was about 10 years ago, then lots of us would join again (or probably still be in!)
Sadly, the PC world (no not the computer peopl) have just messed the whole thing up, and sight has clearly been lost, especially from the airships. Their sole purpose in life is to cover their ar$es, not make mistakes and get promoted - Hooo Raaa.
I need a lie down - rant over
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, get me a Grouse fast!!'
If we could take the RAF back to where it was about 10 years ago, then lots of us would join again (or probably still be in!)
Sadly, the PC world (no not the computer peopl) have just messed the whole thing up, and sight has clearly been lost, especially from the airships. Their sole purpose in life is to cover their ar$es, not make mistakes and get promoted - Hooo Raaa.
I need a lie down - rant over
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, get me a Grouse fast!!'
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Of course while we all claim its going to the dogs, I was reading a book on the battle of the Atlantic recently in which the author lambasted the current state of the RN, too few ships, too little morale, too many tasks and tired people. Said book was published in 1956.
As John Winton once put it, "my father and grandfather both left the RN cos it was going to the dogs. The navy's always going to the dogs. It's when people start talkinhg about our bright shining future you start panicking" (1959ish)
As John Winton once put it, "my father and grandfather both left the RN cos it was going to the dogs. The navy's always going to the dogs. It's when people start talkinhg about our bright shining future you start panicking" (1959ish)