RAF & degree (or not?)
TAC Int Bloke
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Also in service the enhanced learning credit scheme will just about pay for you to do a degree thought the OU -
http://www.learning-forces.org.uk/ for more details
However I still recommend doing the degree the 'normal way'
if nothing else you could use the money to fund an MA!
-Nick
http://www.learning-forces.org.uk/ for more details
However I still recommend doing the degree the 'normal way'
if nothing else you could use the money to fund an MA!
-Nick
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With the latest Defence Cuts announced recently, you do not have to be Brain of Britain to realise that competition is going to get harder in the near future (and stay that way). Therefore my gut feeling would be 'go for the degree'.
However, the RAF love a young recruit who will give them a minimum of 12-15 years front line service before joining the airlines. (New Terms of Service will be to age 40 to fit in with new pension scheme!!). Also I have met plenty of very sharp dudes who are moving up the ranks a lot quicker because they have age on their side rather than a degree. Universities accept mature students, the RAF don't.
So if promotion is your aim (which will take you out of the cockpit) then try and join early. If a good time and a cheap APTL by the age of 40 is your aim, then go to uni.
What would I tell my son to do? (another thread, I know). Well, if he wanted a career (ie high rank), I would first try and back both ways (being completely open about it.) ie "I would prefer to join the RAF first but if I fail I will go to Uni, join the UAS and tray again". At the same time, ensure he has a good uni place up his sleeve and if in doubt, go to Uni.
One of the standard questions at OASC is what will you do if you fail?. A good and realistic answer will paint a better picture than any bull about 'I only want to fly'. The RAF is looking for more than 'stick monkeys', it wants leaders who will achieve their aim despite the difficulties facing them.
Why do want to join the RAF??
However, the RAF love a young recruit who will give them a minimum of 12-15 years front line service before joining the airlines. (New Terms of Service will be to age 40 to fit in with new pension scheme!!). Also I have met plenty of very sharp dudes who are moving up the ranks a lot quicker because they have age on their side rather than a degree. Universities accept mature students, the RAF don't.
So if promotion is your aim (which will take you out of the cockpit) then try and join early. If a good time and a cheap APTL by the age of 40 is your aim, then go to uni.
What would I tell my son to do? (another thread, I know). Well, if he wanted a career (ie high rank), I would first try and back both ways (being completely open about it.) ie "I would prefer to join the RAF first but if I fail I will go to Uni, join the UAS and tray again". At the same time, ensure he has a good uni place up his sleeve and if in doubt, go to Uni.
One of the standard questions at OASC is what will you do if you fail?. A good and realistic answer will paint a better picture than any bull about 'I only want to fly'. The RAF is looking for more than 'stick monkeys', it wants leaders who will achieve their aim despite the difficulties facing them.
Why do want to join the RAF??
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joe
I agree with the majority that a degree is the best course of action prior to entry, but you should take into consideration the implementation of the new military pension scheme which IMHO will disadvantage anyone joining on the new terms. If I remember rightly it is mandatory for all new joiners after Apr 2005. I know that your pension seems like years away, but joining under the current terms will ultimately give you more choices later in life.
Anyone else care to comment ??
Rgds
I agree with the majority that a degree is the best course of action prior to entry, but you should take into consideration the implementation of the new military pension scheme which IMHO will disadvantage anyone joining on the new terms. If I remember rightly it is mandatory for all new joiners after Apr 2005. I know that your pension seems like years away, but joining under the current terms will ultimately give you more choices later in life.
Anyone else care to comment ??
Rgds
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Joe,
Yours is a question that I have been asked many times. The simple fact is that it makes more sense for the RAF to get you early – greater return of service and you are more accommodating of the demands of training, more malleable even. For a long time the RAF courted graduates which I suspect owed more to a misguided perception of who should populate the officer cadre – I am glad to see that notion has diminished.
Interestingly, my own circumstances were not too different from yours. I saw university as a stepping-stone to the RAF and applied for a cadetship to study aeronautical engineering– when I was offered Direct Entry I jumped at the chance. Personally, I lucked in – had I waited I would have hit a massive holding crisis that was just over the horizon, taken years to get through and missed out on some amazing experiences.
Therefore, I avoid giving direct advice but encourage anyone in your position to see what each option really represents:
Direct Entry will be fantastic at your current age and you will have a chance to get on with doing something that, from the sound of it, is in your blood. Forget any nonsense about being better placed to achieve high rank – if that alone is what motivates you, become a politician (because you will always be subordinate to one in the RAF).
University will also be an amazing experience, leaving you with a respected qualification, exposure to a broader spectrum of life – and, as correctly observed by the Alligator, lots of girls! The RAF does not care what degree you get. So: A. Choose something really difficult that impinges upon your chances to make the most of all the ancillary opportunities, quickly becomes obsolete and will never be used again if Plan A is successful. Or B, choose something that will be fun, not too difficult, give you a general education that will always be useful and, preferably, have a high ratio of girls attending.
I would not want to turn the clock back and can no more hope to predict what the future holds but, if I were in your position, I would go to university and read history. Or underwater basket weaving!
Then become a fighter pilot.
Yours is a question that I have been asked many times. The simple fact is that it makes more sense for the RAF to get you early – greater return of service and you are more accommodating of the demands of training, more malleable even. For a long time the RAF courted graduates which I suspect owed more to a misguided perception of who should populate the officer cadre – I am glad to see that notion has diminished.
Interestingly, my own circumstances were not too different from yours. I saw university as a stepping-stone to the RAF and applied for a cadetship to study aeronautical engineering– when I was offered Direct Entry I jumped at the chance. Personally, I lucked in – had I waited I would have hit a massive holding crisis that was just over the horizon, taken years to get through and missed out on some amazing experiences.
Therefore, I avoid giving direct advice but encourage anyone in your position to see what each option really represents:
Direct Entry will be fantastic at your current age and you will have a chance to get on with doing something that, from the sound of it, is in your blood. Forget any nonsense about being better placed to achieve high rank – if that alone is what motivates you, become a politician (because you will always be subordinate to one in the RAF).
University will also be an amazing experience, leaving you with a respected qualification, exposure to a broader spectrum of life – and, as correctly observed by the Alligator, lots of girls! The RAF does not care what degree you get. So: A. Choose something really difficult that impinges upon your chances to make the most of all the ancillary opportunities, quickly becomes obsolete and will never be used again if Plan A is successful. Or B, choose something that will be fun, not too difficult, give you a general education that will always be useful and, preferably, have a high ratio of girls attending.
I would not want to turn the clock back and can no more hope to predict what the future holds but, if I were in your position, I would go to university and read history. Or underwater basket weaving!
Then become a fighter pilot.
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Agree that maybe DE would have been preferential a few years back when the demand for pilots was higher. However, in the current climate, with holds and reduced pilot intake etc. A three year stint at univesity may mean that by the time you come to apply for a place on IOT, which adds at least another year, the holds etc (may) have sorted themselves out!
And the pension won't come into play for you anyway Joe, becuase there is NO way that you will have applied, been accepted, passed and graduated Cranwell before the April 2005 cut-off! (Although I'm not sure if you need to have graduated to make the cut-off...anyone know??)
And the pension won't come into play for you anyway Joe, becuase there is NO way that you will have applied, been accepted, passed and graduated Cranwell before the April 2005 cut-off! (Although I'm not sure if you need to have graduated to make the cut-off...anyone know??)
With secondary education standards falling to ever lower levels, were you to become unsuccessful during pilot training, you would have nothing to fall back upon if you didn't have a degree...
I joined as a Flt Cdt; however, I 'lucked in' when the massive University Cadetship expansion occurred at the end of the 60s. As a result I had 4 years of fun, flew far too much (it wasn't used for streaming back then) - and by the time I graduated, virtually everyone was being sent FJ. Had I stayed on the Flt Cdt course, there is no way I would have flown FJs as the ratio of FJ:RW:ME was something like 2:1:10 just a few years earlier!
But I wouldn't do Aero Eng at University! Business studies, perhaps? Or Geography - pretty babe-tastic?
If you've got a mathematical background up to and including basic calculus, you've probably got all you'd need for RAF pilot or ATPL level mathematics.
Go to University, read an interesting degree, join the OTC. If your father is some wheel in the RAF and wonders why you didn't apply for the UAS, tell him it's thanks to his colleagues who have totally screwed up the University Cadetship system!
I joined as a Flt Cdt; however, I 'lucked in' when the massive University Cadetship expansion occurred at the end of the 60s. As a result I had 4 years of fun, flew far too much (it wasn't used for streaming back then) - and by the time I graduated, virtually everyone was being sent FJ. Had I stayed on the Flt Cdt course, there is no way I would have flown FJs as the ratio of FJ:RW:ME was something like 2:1:10 just a few years earlier!
But I wouldn't do Aero Eng at University! Business studies, perhaps? Or Geography - pretty babe-tastic?
If you've got a mathematical background up to and including basic calculus, you've probably got all you'd need for RAF pilot or ATPL level mathematics.
Go to University, read an interesting degree, join the OTC. If your father is some wheel in the RAF and wonders why you didn't apply for the UAS, tell him it's thanks to his colleagues who have totally screwed up the University Cadetship system!
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The reason for the degree is that it's needed to become an EngO, which is what i think i'd go for if i didnt get pilot after the first two attempts.
I know a degree is required for that branch, but does it not have to be an engineering degree? If i can do American Studies or something then i will, i just thought it had to be relevant??
I know a degree is required for that branch, but does it not have to be an engineering degree? If i can do American Studies or something then i will, i just thought it had to be relevant??
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I had always planned to join the RAF and having made it through Cranwell and being accepted for Fighter Control, I decided at the last minute that I wanted to have something to fall back on should things not work out for me in the RAF.
Went to Uni, had a great time, was sponsored by Siemens on the electronics course that I did, and ended up with a job with them. Left there 4 years ago to do IT contract work and I'm now able to pull in a 6 figure sum each year, working for myself. I had wanted to join the RAF since the age of 9, but boy am I glad I didn't now.
In the 8 years since I graduated I haven't once been asked to prove my qualifications.
Went to Uni, had a great time, was sponsored by Siemens on the electronics course that I did, and ended up with a job with them. Left there 4 years ago to do IT contract work and I'm now able to pull in a 6 figure sum each year, working for myself. I had wanted to join the RAF since the age of 9, but boy am I glad I didn't now.
In the 8 years since I graduated I haven't once been asked to prove my qualifications.
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Joe- to my knowledge, yes, it does need to be an engineering degree for engineering! The in service degree- scheme is a very good scheme but will take a long time to get there. I'm 3 or so years out of IOT, and only just applying to take mine up. The OU website has a lot of good info about credit transference schemes for the various RAF training courses, but they do consider the relavance to the degree you consider. The learning credit scheme which is offered is good, but you won't be eligible for the enhanced learning credits for a while - the next registration date is in 2012. However, if you were doing OU off your own back in the RAF, you will get a discount, and standard learning credits will give you £175 a year. They will also pay for 2 week long residential courses a year, and treat the first one as duty so you don't need to take leave. Having said all that, as a thicky myself, and knowing that I'll spend this entire tour as an F/O, I'd say go to Uni as the pay is not that good until you get at teast 2 stripes on your shoulder! If you can, get as much info from the publications at the CIO, and if you have questions, call OASC directly, as you'll generally find you'll get better advice than in your avaerage CIO! Hope it all works out.
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I was in exactly the same position back in the 1st part of 2001. I was going to uni to study Aerospace Manufacturing Engineering because I was under the impression that everyone does and it was expected of me. I went for sponsorshipin 2001, and when it came to the final debrief the Wg Cdr asked if I'd accept a DE or not. I admitted that I probably would. Offered and accepted it a few months later.
Whilst I did not feel a degree was worth it's weight anymore, you may actually be interested in the subject, and not necessarily the fact that you have a degree. I agree with the coment about the problem with the flying system being congested at the moment. You may find if you go for sponsorship that they don't even want DEs until the system is sorted.
My advice is you keep both applications and just see what they offer . . . no need to make a decision too soon. All I know is I made the right choice for ME! Decide whether or not you really want a degree or just a good time.
Whilst I did not feel a degree was worth it's weight anymore, you may actually be interested in the subject, and not necessarily the fact that you have a degree. I agree with the coment about the problem with the flying system being congested at the moment. You may find if you go for sponsorship that they don't even want DEs until the system is sorted.
My advice is you keep both applications and just see what they offer . . . no need to make a decision too soon. All I know is I made the right choice for ME! Decide whether or not you really want a degree or just a good time.
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I had my place at Uni doign Aero Eng, but the RAF nabbed me and made me join up. The Degree doesn't do anything in way of promotion if you join up straight away at 18/19 but if you joined at 23 without a degree it wouldn't. With some titles of degrees nowadays, think yourself lucky if you are selected to join one of the few organisations which doesn't require a degree, but offers similar promotion prospects! Join the RAF, have a time just as great as Uni, with even cheaper booze, whilst being paid to drink! You can't start the In Service Degree until on the Front Line where once your Combat ready you should have sufficient time to complete your degree, or fo the MSc once on the front line at Shriv.
Personally, joined at 18 and never looked back... Am now 21 and just starting on the Tornado F3, and I keep hearing from mates who did the Uni thing and are now stuck in crummy jobs earning half what I do, and who the RAF has said no to.
Take a long hard look at what you want to do, talk things through with your parents, and try to visit a Station if you are able and talk to the JPs or JNs on the squadrons and see what their perspectives are.
Frodo_Monkey
"Air defence - hoorah"
Take a long hard look at what you want to do, talk things through with your parents, and try to visit a Station if you are able and talk to the JPs or JNs on the squadrons and see what their perspectives are.
Frodo_Monkey
"Air defence - hoorah"
